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CLEVELAND, Ohio - Nearly 4,000 Ohio kids will have no child care next week, if the government shutdown continues. On Today in Ohio, we’re talking about how state Head Start classrooms will close for about 14% of their students, if federal funding doesn’t come through. Listen online here. Editor Chris Quinn hosts our daily half-hour news podcast, with editorial board member Lisa Garvin, impact editor Leila Atassi and content director Laura Johnston. You’ve been sending Chris lots of thoughts and suggestions on our from-the-newsroom text account, in which he shares what we’re thinking about at cleveland.com. You can sign up here: https://joinsubtext.com/chrisquinn. Here’s what we’re asking about today: Ohio’s highest court is revisiting one of Mike DeWine’s most controversial pandemic decisions — turning down $900 million in jobless aid. Could he now be forced to hand it over? Ohio lawmakers are considering ending the grace period for counting mail-in ballots that arrive after Election Day. What problem are they trying to solve — and who could be most affected if the rule changes? Ohio is moving to drop Planned Parenthood from Medicaid, a change that could affect tens of thousands of patients who rely on its clinics. What’s driving this decision, and what could it mean for access to care across the state? The federal shutdown could soon shutter Head Start programs for thousands of Ohio kids. How did a political standoff turn into a child care crisis? Ohio has joined a bipartisan call for Congress to clarify the rules around hemp and synthetic THC. What’s driving this sudden urgency to rein in products that have been legal — and largely unregulated — for years? MetroHealth’s contract to run medical care at the county jail is about to be extended — again. But with staff shortages and lawsuits piling up, is the county doubling down on the right partner? The Shaker Lakes have long been a cherished symbol of the region’s natural beauty. But now the sewer district wants to drain them — residents are firing a shot across the bow. What’s the latest in this dispute? A postgame scuffle at a high school football game in Massillon ended with police pepper-spraying teenage players — and now Ben Crump is on the case. How did a handshake line turn into a national civil rights story? Cleveland’s new law ends the guessing game on pay — every job must list a salary range. Will it really close wage gaps, or just expose how wide they are? More Today in Ohio Ohio’s war on nonprofit tax breaks is starting with... The Nature Conservancy?! Fair maps? Forget it. Ohio Republicans are running out the clock — again Bernie Moreno’s viral lie: The truth behind the fake Mentor Schools ‘child porn’ claim We have an Apple podcasts channel exclusively for this podcast. Subscribe here. Do you get your podcasts on Spotify? Find us here. RadioPublic is another popular podcast vehicle, and we are here. On PodParadise, find us here. And on PlayerFM, we are here. Read the automated transcript below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings. Leila (00:01.94) Washington can’t pass a budget and the ripple effects are about to reach Ohio’s youngest learners. Head Start program serving thousands of kids could lose, could close next week because Congress can’t get its act together. You’re listening to Today in Ohio, the news podcast from Cleveland.com and the Plain Dealer. I’m Leila Atassi filling in for Chris Quinn, who is off until Monday, enjoying the crisp fall weather, I hope. I’m joined by Laura Johnston, Courtney Astolfi and Lisa Garvin. We’ll circle back to the damage that Congress is inflicting on Head Start later in the podcast. first, Ohio’s highest court is revisiting one of Mike DeWine’s most controversial pandemic decisions, turning down $900 million in jobless aid. Laura, could he now be forced to hand it over? What’s the latest in this? Laura (00:51.154) It’s possible. I don’t really see it happening because we’re talking about the Ohio Supreme Court here. And the Supreme Court’s agreed to hear DeWine’s appeal because he lost the lower court ruling that would require him to seek and distribute $900 million in the special federal coronavirus and unemployment benefits that he turned down in 2021. Remember, the federal government was giving extra money and he said, nope, in June of 2021, they didn’t run out until about September of that year. And we’re talking about 320,000 Ohioans who would have remained eligible for those $300 a week payments. he thought, remember he and John Husted when they went on, wine with the wine every day, thought that people were not working because they were enjoying their unemployment benefits. And he wanted to get people back to work. But here’s the thing about the Supreme Court in Ohio. It’s all but one is Republican and all but one. accepted this case. Jennifer Bruner is the only one who voted against it. And then his son, DeWine’s son, Pat DeWine, did not participate in the decision to take it. So was five to one. So I mean, we know how this court rules. It’s a very Republican court. I can’t see them siding with the unemployed in this case. Leila (02:07.542) Yeah, I mean, let’s consider the reality of the situation. The court is stacked with Republican justices. Governor’s own son sits on the court, like you said, and if history is any indication, he would not recuse himself from this matter, right? Laura (02:22.514) Well, he did recuse himself in the decision to take the case. So there is a step there. So hopefully that’s going to continue through, but it won’t really matter if every other Republican justice says, hey, these unemployment benefits weren’t needed. DeWine had every right to turn them down. there are cases, know, Dave Yost had asserted that the ruling meant the case was over years ago in 2022, but that’s been going ever since then. That’s why we’re talking about this in 2025. Leila (02:25.566) okay, very good. Laura (02:52.274) about benefits in 2021 because you can’t go back in time. All you could do is distribute the money that could have been distributed in 2021. And the plaintiffs say that the governor has to participate in federal programs. And they said they were just an increase in regular unemployment benefits while the governor saying, no, this was a separate program. I didn’t have to take this money. Leila (03:13.412) You know, for me, this really brought back a lot of bad feelings from the pandemic time because I had kind of forgotten about this till this bubbled up again this summer. I went back and looked at the clips on this topic and it reminded me that after DeWine made this decision to hold back the relief funding, labor data showed that his decision did not achieve what he said it would. That cutting off the extra $300 a week didn’t drive Ohioans back to work any faster. Laura (03:18.576) Mm. Laura (03:35.026) Hmm. Leila (03:41.432) than in states that kept that aid. In fact, Ohio’s job growth lagged the national average. So if the policy didn’t boost employment and it siphoned hundreds of millions in spending from local economies, it raises this brutal question of whether this really was about helping Ohio’s economy or was this Dewine’s version of virtue signaling to his party? Was he trying to convey to them that he’d side with business owners over struggling families? Because remember, Dewine was under fire from his own party. Laura (04:02.962) Hmm. Leila (04:10.636) at the time because they didn’t like how long schools were closed or how long we had to wear masks. They were stripping him of power to declare emergencies and things like that. Laura, do you think that that pressure played into his decision back then to stick it to struggling Ohioans? Laura (04:14.162) Mm-hmm. Laura (04:29.242) It’s entirely possible because Mike DeWine talks a good game about protecting children and the needy in our state, but then doesn’t always follow through. And he has had good ideas about gun control, but he can’t ever get them passed with the Republicans. And he doesn’t stand up for against them very often with the state legislature. And they’re very powerful. So this could have just been a lot of pressure from the state house and him saying, OK. I’m going to give this up then. $900 million is a lot of money. And if it were in the pockets of Ohioans, they could have gone and spent it on other things. How often do we talk about those economic development studies where they talk about the exponential factors of the money that gets paid to the employees, and then they go spend it at the grocery store, and they employ somebody else, and they hire this or whatever? $900 million would have turned into a lot more than that. Leila (05:03.586) Mm-hmm. Leila (05:19.854) right. Leila (05:26.82) That’s right. mean, this really hurt the economy, which was struggling so, so badly during that time. So yeah, I wonder, I believe that you’re right, Laura, that this is not going to turn into, you know, he’s not going to get hit by the Supreme Court on this one, but we can hope that would be just such poetic justice after this cruel decision that he made in 2021. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Ohio lawmakers are considering ending the grace period for counting mail-in ballots that arrive after Election Day. Lisa, what problem are they trying to solve here and who could be most affected if the rule changes? Lisa Garvin (05:57.365) you Lisa Garvin (06:07.423) Well, of course they throw around the word voter fraud, even though our own secretary of state says that voter fraud is vanishingly rare in Ohio. But there are two senators, Teresa Gavarone of Wood County and Andrew Brenner of Delaware County, both Republicans. They’ve introduced Senate Bill 293. That would eliminate the grace period for mail-in ballots that are postmarked the day before election day and they... Currently, they are counted if they arrive up to four days afterward, but they want to end that grace period. So they’re anticipating a possible Supreme Court ruling from the United States Supreme Court, which is so they’re kind of doing like a preemptive strike here. The Fifth Court of Appeals ruled in a Mississippi case that the mail-in ballots can’t be counted after election day, even if they’re postmarked on time, and that preempts Mississippi state law. So 34 states currently don’t accept late mail-in ballots. Ohio law didn’t cause a stir until the Trump 2020 campaign where he really went after mail-in ballots and wanted to get rid of them completely. So Senator Gavarone says, well, know, mail-in ballots are less secure than in-person voting. And some people think that a little bit of voter fraud is okay, but not me. And Brenner, her co-sponsor says, well, removing the grace period gives voters confidence that there won’t be phony ballots stuffed afterwards to skew the results of the election. So in Ohio, we had 9,500 late absentee ballots last year. That was 0.86 % of all mail-in ballots, which are over a million, and 0.17 % of all votes. Leila (07:49.751) It’s so crazy how this push to end the grace period is really just, I mean, we’re just, we’re basing this on the smallest tiny sliver of a problem here. There’s, like you said, fewer than 10,000 late ballots that were counted statewide last year. That is a fraction of a percent of all that came in. Most were from people who followed the rules, but just got tripped up by slow mail delivery. So if lawmakers eliminate those extra days, We’re not going to be punishing fraudsters here. These are ordinary voters who did everything right. So when you think about how unreliable mail service has become in some parts of Ohio, know, Lisa, what kind of voters you think are most at risk of losing their voice under a rule like this? Lisa Garvin (08:33.919) Well, my 96-year-old mother, for one, I mean, she votes absentee and has for years. And quite honestly, I think this will disproportionately affect the elderly, a lot of whom are conservative and vote Republican. Leila (08:36.526) Right. Leila (08:46.424) That’s interesting. Also students who I, you know, I can’t imagine that they, you know, there was a significant number of students who were probably conservative as well, but a lot of students would also fall into the democratic camp and I’m sure they’re trying to winnow away those numbers. And military, Yeah, military. You know, also I wanted to mention Senator Gavarone, you know, she and her co-sponsor Senator Brenner. Lisa Garvin (08:49.397) Mm-hmm. Lisa Garvin (09:05.075) Military. Lisa Garvin (09:14.442) Brenner. Leila (09:15.296) said that absentee ballots are less secure than in-person voting. And Gavaron, the story kind of walked off with this quote from Gavaron. She said, more time waiting equals more time to commit a crime. And she said removing the grace period would give voters confidence that there wouldn’t be a rush of phony ballots shoved into the, to skew the results. You know, I just think that might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Lisa Garvin (09:28.255) Mm-hmm. Leila (09:44.094) Hahaha! Courtney (09:44.458) Yeah, A plus B does not equal C there, Senator Gavarone. That makes no sense. Leila (09:47.425) Right, right. actually, I’m sorry. I misattributed that. That was Senator Brenner who said that. My apologies. But you’re absolutely right. I mean, what in the world? This is just one of the most ridiculous conversations, and it’s being just spun to the electorate in just a disgusting way. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Lisa Garvin (09:53.769) Mm-hmm. Leila (10:11.478) Ohio is moving to drop Planned Parenthood for Medicaid, a change that could affect tens of thousands of patients who rely on its clinics. What’s driving this decision and what could it mean for access to care across the state, Courtney (10:25.026) Yeah, Planned Parenthood is taking up the fight on this one because Ohio has moved to cut off Planned Parenthood from receiving any Medicaid reimbursements. And in doing so, Ohio cited a new federal budget reconciliation law that was passed over the summer that states that Planned Parenthood is prohibited from receiving Medicaid reimbursement. So Ohio saw that in the federal budget. and moved on it immediately. Well, when Planned Parenthood received notification from the state that they’re going to cut off this flow of money for things like contraception, cancer screenings, and STD testing, know, Planned Parenthood didn’t lay down and take it. What they’re doing now is requesting an administrative hearing to challenge this decision from the state. And at this upcoming hearing, You know, that will ultimately determine whether this federal prohibition really gives legal grounds for Ohio to revoke its Medicaid status. And this is really important. You know, we know Planned Parenthood gets targeted because of the abortion services they provide here. But like I mentioned before, these are healthcare things, things like cancer screenings, where the Medicaid reimbursement would be withheld for a healthcare provider that serves more than 27,000 Ohioans. Leila (11:52.569) Yeah, this is such, it’s so painful to think about how much collateral damage there could be here because a lot of people think about abortion when they think about Planned Parenthood. Medicaid already doesn’t cover that in almost all cases, many cases. This is about people losing access to all of those services that you mentioned, Courtney, the cancer screenings, STD testing, and preventive care in communities where Planned Parenthood might be the only affordable provider. So tens of thousands of Ohioans are going to be facing some real disruption in their care. Do you think, Courtney, this is going to... How will this play out on the ground? Will other clinics be able to absorb that many new patients, or do you think we’re going to be looking at widening gaps in basic healthcare access across the state because of this decision? Courtney (12:38.84) I’m not really sure how to conclude anything other than the latter, especially because we know Planned Parenthood is already up against it because of prior rounds of funding cuts. They’ve already closed down three clinics across the state, Cleveland, Springfield, and Hamilton. So they’re already struggling. I don’t see how this can’t push it down further. I mean, I think of many different friends over the years who have sought Planned Parenthood care for things like contraception and STD testing because it’s more affordable. I just, I don’t know how that’s not going to affect folks who turn to them for affordable services. Leila (13:17.73) Yeah. Another way to look at this is that it’s cutting off Planned Parenthood from providing efficient services. mean, these clinics already handle a massive share of reproductive and preventive care for low-income patients, often more cheaply and effectively than hospitals or private doctors. So if the state pushes them out, the care doesn’t disappear. It just gets harder to find and more expensive to provide. I don’t think anyone is realistically positioned to replace the care that Planned Parenthood provides. I don’t see how this makes sense from a fiscal or public health standpoint. This is just going to widen the gap and make care very hard to access. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. The federal shutdown could soon shutter Head Start programs for thousands of Ohio kids. Laura, how did a political standoff turn into a childcare crisis? Laura (14:12.538) Well, the same way this political standoff is threatening people’s livelihood and their food pantries, basically. Representatives are putting party over people. But don’t worry, because the White House is still hosting their Halloween gathering on Thursday. So maybe you can go trick or treat at the White House, even if you can’t get child care. So services for 3700 Ohio kids could close. We’re mostly talking rural Ohio, where there is a lack of child care anyway. and not in Cuyahoga County right now, but that’s only because we’re on a different cycle. This November 1st deadline is important for a lot of the Head Start centers throughout the state. And so they’re just gonna close. We’re talking about a thousand people who work there. They’re not gonna have jobs to go to and they won’t be getting paid. And all these kids will have no childcare, which means all of those parents will have to figure it out, which I don’t know if that means dropping them off at a... at a grandparent’s house or just not going to work, but it is going to ripple through the entire state, I think, because this is, childcare is so important. If you can’t care for your kids, you can’t go to work. Leila (15:22.242) You know, the same families who already live on the edge are the first to always feel the fallout when Washington grinds to a halt like this. mean, Head Start is obviously more than childcare. We give stability and meals and health screenings and a lot of hope for kids who start life with fewer advantages. And when that all collapses, like you said, Laura, it really ripples through entire communities. At what point do we start treating early childhood education like essential infrastructure? Laura (15:35.729) Mm-hmm. Leila (15:51.897) This has been a big part of your thought and your platform for the last few years. It’s something too vital to be shut down every time politicians can’t agree. Did this hit you hard reading this story this week? Laura (15:59.859) Mm-hmm. Laura (16:07.634) I absolutely, mean, so many of these things are absolutely basic requirements for life that people rely on and that the government can just kind of pull it out from under them is so unfair because these kids didn’t do anything wrong. These families didn’t do anything wrong. You know, the centers themselves with the employees themselves. And I do think they’re essential workers. I mean, that’s why they were open during the pandemic. Do I think we should make them work like air traffic controllers, even if they’re not getting paid? No. I think that we should understand that when the government shuts down, there are going to be huge effects for everyone because the faster everybody feels it, the more they’re going to be writing to their representatives and saying, get back together and come up with a solution here. there has to be, I mean, I wish there were no pain, right? But the thing is, you’re right. This isn’t just daycare. This isn’t just dropping your kid off to watch TV for a couple of hours, right? These are centers for early childhood education that form the backbone of the next generation of Ohioans and we should treat them as important as they are. Leila (17:13.322) Absolutely. And meanwhile, while all this is grinding on, we got a ballroom that needs to be built, right? A jet, what did they buy a jet for? What’s her name? Yeah. There you go. And Lisa, weren’t you talking about a story you read about a golden arch that Trump wants to build on the National Mall? Laura (17:19.698) A very gold ballroom, right? There’s a lot of gold. Laura (17:26.78) Two jets for Christy Gnome, I believe, yeah. Lisa Garvin (17:31.765) . Yes. Leila (17:39.929) Those are our priorities, you know? Forget the kids, man. Let’s get that done. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Ohio has joined a bipartisan call for Congress to clarify the rules around hemp and synthetic THC. Lisa, what’s driving the sudden urgency to rein in products that have been legal and largely unregulated for years? Lisa Garvin (18:01.717) Not really sure, but you know, what’s happening now is a bunch of attorneys general, including ours, Dave Yost, are asking Congress to close a loophole in federal law that allows unregulated sales of intoxicating hemp products. So Ohio is one of 39 states or territories that are signing onto this. So they want to clarify the federal definition of hemp. It was legalized for industrial use in the 2018 farm bill. And in that farm bill, says it couldn’t have any more than 0.3 % THC, but producers exploited that by creating products that were under the 0.3 % amount, and that was delta 9 THC, and that created a huge unregulated market. And they’re saying that state level regulation can address the public health problem of these intoxicating hemp products. And they said it won’t stop. mail order sales anyway. So it really needs to be not a patchwork state approach, but a federal approach. Prohibiting intoxicating hemp. I’m sorry. I already said that. So in the letter, they sent the letter to the Senate committees on appropriations, agriculture, nutrition, and forestry, and the House commissions of agriculture and appropriations. But now I wonder what’s going to happen to legislation in here in Ohio that was going to close that loop. Leila (19:24.26) That’s a great point. I find it fascinating that lawmakers are suddenly scrambling to clean up a mess they created. The Farm Bill practically invited this chaos by legalizing hemp with no plan to regulate all the intoxicating offshoots of it. And now we’ve got these THC gummies next to the energy drinks at gas station. And it’s another case of policy written for industry, not for the people who have to live with the consequences. Lisa Garvin (19:49.333) Mm-hmm. Leila (19:51.823) So when both parties now claim they want to fix this, Lisa, do you think that they’re really motivated by public health or just simply by the fact that they finally lost control of the market here? Lisa Garvin (20:04.147) I think that’s part of it is that they lost control of the market. And as we found with any kind of products that are intoxicating, there are ways that chemists and others can get around it and get around these, you know, find these loopholes and squeeze right through. So I find it interesting that they’re all of a sudden concerned, but I’m glad that they are. mean, this is something that needs to be regulated. If you drive down like Euclid Avenue, how many smoke shops are you going to see in a mile? A whole bunch. Leila (20:32.802) Yeah. Yeah. And even though I’m certain that once they’re regulated, the cost of these things increases, I also believe the quality of these products would increase so that you can feel confident that what you’re getting has at least been tested for purity. Do you think that that’s true among people who use these products, that they would feel safer once these things are regulated? Lisa Garvin (20:48.597) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Garvin (20:57.417) feel like people that are using these products are kind of outside the law anyway and probably don’t care. As long as they can get it at the gas station, I don’t think they care. Leila (21:04.345) Huh. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Metro Health’s contract to run medical care at the county jail is about to be extended again, but with staff shortages and lawsuits piling up, Courtney, is the county doubling down on the right partner? Courtney (21:24.418) Well, you know, there are some doubts apparently among council or at least some question marks they want answered before they move forward on this extension. Because we saw this week, you know, county council press pause on the extension that they were expecting to vote on in part because of Cleveland.com’s reporting and in part because of, you know, what appears to be just confusion over the dollar figure here. So basically county executive Chris Ronane wants to extend Metro Health’s current contract several more months to kind of patch them over until they can set up a fresh new contract with potentially MetroHealth or potentially another new provider to get them through the long haul going forward. So the short term band-aid is supposed to be in place about five more months and that would give them the time to negotiate the future contract. But county council members have some questions here. This five months extension, it’s worth up to $12 million, would basically increase the math on what the county’s paying monthly to Metro Health. Right now it’s about 1.3 million a month. With this half a year extension, it would boost it significantly to as much as $2.5 million a month. We know this is on the backdrop of challenges getting medical care and providers into the jail. Metro Health struggled to staff an overnight doctor. They don’t have enough RNs, LPNs, and other critical staffing positions here. So part of what the county’s telling us is they really want to, you know, kind of up the money and help address these staffing shortages. Leila (23:10.51) Yeah, that monthly increase doesn’t seem like it’s commensurate with inflation, right? I mean, that seems like a lot more. And also though, if they haven’t been fully staffed, there should have been some cost savings, right? That could have carried over into this next stretch. Maybe I’m not thinking of it right. I feel like it’s, yeah, I feel like it’s sort of wild that six years after the crisis that exposed this horrific neglect in the jail, Courtney (23:28.482) No, that’s a great point. Leila (23:40.003) We’re still talking about understaffing and unfilled positions and confusion over contract numbers. Courtney, you did all of the great work with Adam Fereese on exposing a lot of that. know, MetroHealth was supposed to be one of the fixes, the safeguard that would make sure no one in county custody ever died from lack of care, you know, in the future. But now with these lawsuits piling up and basic staffing still in question, you have to wonder whether the county’s just throwing good money after bad. Do you think... The problem is Metro Health itself or that Cuyahoga County still hasn’t figured out how to demand real accountability from anyone running services in that jail. Courtney (24:17.122) I think jail healthcare is a tough game for whoever holds the contract, right? They’re facing an uphill battle either way. The working conditions are rough. The demands are rough. The volume that you have to treat is rough and a jail as large as Cuyahoga counties. I don’t know that this is an indictment on, on Metro health level of care. I’d be skeptical deeply of that, because I’m not sure anyone else out there would be able to write better, better care, but. Leila (24:36.617) Mm. Mm-hmm. Courtney (24:44.404) What this whole conversation has been since going back to that crisis in 2018 is good, sufficient medical care. You got to pay those people well to get them to stay working under such harsh conditions. So you’ve got to pay for these kinds of services if you want them done well. Leila (24:55.534) Sure. Leila (25:02.884) I’m so glad you brought up the conditions because I recognize the difficulty in recruiting and retaining healthcare workers who are willing to work in the jail, especially considering those conditions of this current facility. Healthcare workers are in high demand anyway. A lot of them can go anywhere. And where in the world will you find a doctor willing to make a career move that would put them in the jail to work nights that lasted just a few weeks, right? But Courtney, do you think that the new facility that’s on the horizon, for the county, the new jail. Will that help recruitment efforts? Do you think that the quality of their surroundings matter when it comes to job satisfaction and recruitment? Courtney (25:44.202) I sure hope so. And I think it’ll be because that new jail is supposed to be set up for better medical care. There’s more room and space for it. There’s going to be hopefully just a better setup to provide the care. So I hope that the building itself can relieve some of the pressure of running up and down the elevators at the current jail and trying to get to this unit and that cell and that unit. You know, I’m hoping the layout makes the job easier. And You know, if inmates are in better conditions being treated, maybe that eases the conditions for the care providers as well. mean, fingers crossed that this is a real solution and can attack part of this problem. Leila (26:27.534) Fingers crossed. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. The Shaker Lakes have long been a cherished symbol of the region’s natural beauty, but now the sewer district wants to drain them and residents are firing a shot across the bow. Laura, what’s the latest in this dispute? Laura (26:42.566) So three residents are formally warning the local governments, Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights, that any work on the lakes without the proper permits would be unlawful. So they wrote this letter and they said that the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District is prepping to begin major earth moving hydraulic work and that they haven’t completed the required federal and state environmental reviews. They say they don’t have the Clean Water Act authorization, state water quality certification, and a completed federal historic review for the lakes. And they said, hey, if you do any work without all of these documents, they’re going to face legal liability. That’s the cities would themselves. The sewer district says, hey, we realize this. We’ve applied for all applicable federal and state permits, including the US Army Corps and the National Historic Preservation work. They said, we’re not going to begin construction. So this does feel, like you said, like shot across the bow, like nobody’s saying anybody’s doing anything wrong other than the fact that they don’t want. the lake wiped out in the first place. And that’s all, all of this is about that. They don’t want to see this reverted to a stream. They want to keep the dam and they want to keep the lakes, which they say are part of the historic nature of the area. Whereas any RSD is saying, Hey, it’s better environmentally if we don’t have a lake and it’s cheaper for us to maintain too. Lisa Garvin (27:54.485) All Leila (28:02.434) Yeah, the story is so great to discuss because there are so many viewpoints on it. And I even suspect that we, among the four of us, are divided a little bit on it. I’ve said in the past, probably controversially, that I see where the sewer district is coming from here because they’re in the business of sewer and stormwater management. And they’re not here to create and maintain recreational lakes and green spaces. That’s not their mission, or at least that’s not their primary function. Laura (28:06.993) Mm-hmm. Laura (28:29.255) Mm-hmm. Leila (28:29.348) Do you guys think that’s a valid argument or do you think they owe it to the people of the community to make good on the promise they made before, regardless of what it means for the sewer district’s work and their bottom line? Lisa Garvin (28:40.213) I think the people need to give it up. I mean, I grew up in Shaker Heights. I spent a lot of time around the Shaker Lakes. They need to give this up. I mean, like you said, there’s no political agenda, Layla, for the sewer district. They’re trying to mitigate flooding. And it’s been a long time since Donbrook flooded University Circle. A lot of people don’t even remember the last time it flooded. So, I mean, they’re trying to head off. a bad situation and they’re not getting like, I mean, they’re going to get a park. are going to be trails there. They just won’t have a lake. Leila (29:15.289) Yeah. Laura (29:16.056) I understand why people feel so passionate about keeping the landscape the way it is because they love it, right? It’s a beloved part of their neighborhood. I used to live in University Heights and the Horseshoe Lake was on my running path. I would regularly run around the lake and then over that dam. It is beautiful and there is a park there and I get it. It’s not a huge difference in the amount of money. Fifty-five million to keep and rebuild the dam. we’re moving it is $45 million. So I feel like there’s gotta be some give here. Maybe a nonprofit could help raise that money. I mean, there’s a lot of deep pockets in Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights for people who feel strongly about something. Maybe they could have some fundraisers or work with the Shaker, the nature center is right there too, right? It doesn’t seem that far apart. They all want what’s good for the environment. They just want it in different ways. I don’t feel like this has to be one way or the other and completely disappointing. think they should be talking about negotiation. Leila (30:19.692) Yeah, I mean, clearly this is about the lake, but it’s also about trust. mean, the residents have watched the district change course and double the cost estimate and now push this plan to erase this beloved landmark of theirs. So I hear the residents here too. And Laura, it sounds like you’re saying there is a middle ground to find. Laura (30:37.331) I’m not an expert here, but you gotta think $10 million in that area for people who feel passionately that you could get some grants for something, you could raise money somehow. Maybe there’s gotta be some wiggle room here. Lisa Garvin (30:53.237) I can’t remember who it was. Some local politician was saying, well, a middle ground could be a pond, like a large pond as part of this redo. But, you know, honestly, like I said, know, flood control is important, especially with climate change and we’re getting heavier rains here. I mean, they’re trying to get ahead of a problem here. Leila (31:11.81) Yeah, I agree. agree. Yeah, someone said a water feature, I think is what they keep calling it. And my mind immediately goes to splash pad because I have three kids. I the first water feature that I think of is that. hopefully that’s not what they end up with. You’re listening to today in Ohio. I do want to just do one last one that we’ve been putting off all week. This postgame scuffle at a high school football game in Massillon ended with police pepper spraying teenage players. Lisa Garvin (31:16.82) Right. Leila (31:40.29) And now attorney Ben Crump is on this case. Lisa, how did a handshake line turn into a national civil rights story? Lisa Garvin (31:47.273) Yeah, it was enough to attract Ben Crump, who’s nationally known. two dozen football players from St. Louis, Missouri, it’s a high school called Cardinal Ritter College Prep in Missouri, have retained civil rights attorney Ben Crump after an October 3rd game against the Massillon Washington high school team. There was an incident, a fight broke out during the post-game handshake between the teams. but only Cardinal Ritter players were pepper sprayed by the Massillon Police Department. So Crump and a group of Ohio attorneys and the family had a news conference this week to talk about it. They said they’re shocked and angered that law enforcement took drastic measures over a disagreement among players. And then in a Facebook post, the police department said, well, they reviewed the incident and found that they acted within their policies and procedures for use of force. They said it was an unfortunate, difficult situation for officers trying to restore order. So yeah, but, and this got national attention because of Ben Crumpson. Leila (32:52.772) I read a little reporting on this from the Canton repository that brought home the human toll of this. were parents describing the fear of watching their kids on a live stream, being pepper sprayed, and being unable to protect their kids. And then there were students who were now dealing with these long-term issues. Like one has eye damage and another has developed some breathing issues in the aftermath. So whatever the official justification, this seems like it wasn’t just a chaotic moment on a football field. something that these families are gonna carry with them for years. And I’m wondering where does the accountability even begin in a case like this? It’s unclear, if you watch the video, it’s unclear really what was going on. But the main question is, why was only one team pepper sprayed if there was a melee on the field? I don’t know. Lisa, do you have any kind of thoughts on how this might turn out? Lisa Garvin (33:33.461) Mm-hmm. Lisa Garvin (33:37.278) Right. Lisa Garvin (33:45.365) Well, I mean, we do have disagreements in sports all the time. mean, you see baseball, you know, games where the, you know, the bench is empty when they come out and they have a big scrum in the middle of the field. You don’t see them getting pepper sprayed. I mean, I’ve never heard of this before. Leila (33:58.414) right. I know this is crazy and it was captured on camera. Well, you’re listening to Today in Ohio and that’s it for Wednesday’s episode. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for hanging in for a little bit longer episode. Please come back tomorrow for another discussion of the news.
