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CLEVELAND, Ohio — The champagne has barely dried from the Guardians’ playoff run, but the cold business of baseball stops for no one. Cleveland made several surprising roster moves this week, outrighting five players to Triple-A who subsequently elected free agency, including key contributors Ben Lively and Kolby Allard – decisions that highlight the sometimes ruthless calculations behind building a winning team. “Lively would have probably made a little bit over $2 million in arbitration coming off reconstructive elbow surgery,” said Joe Noga on the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. “He’s going to be a guy without a team next season.” The numbers tell the story of why Lively’s departure feels particularly jarring. In 2024, he started 29 games for Cleveland, pitching 151 innings with 118 strikeouts and producing a 1.5 WAR according to Baseball Reference. In 2025, he made 9 starts before going down with an elbow injury that required surgery in May. Beyond the statistics, Lively’s presence in the clubhouse was equally valuable. “He was a great guy,” said Paul Hoynes. “Just a delight to talk to and just to be around. He’s one of those guys that will say anything.” Allard’s departure was perhaps even more surprising given his crucial contributions down the stretch of the 2025 season. The former first-round pick appeared in 33 games for Cleveland this year, going 2-2 with a 2.63 ERA and 42 strikeouts against just 14 walks. Allard had not pitched in 14 days prior to a crucial appearance against Detroit in September that saw him strike out All-Star Riley Greene in an 11-pitch at-bat. More Guardians coverage From Browns disaster to Rockies rebuild? Paul DePodesta returns to baseball after Cleveland football failure Inside Cleveland’s pitcher revival factory: How the Guardians became MLB’s premier rehab destination Guardians clear five players from 40-man roster, decline option on veteran lefty “He did everything the guardians asked to him... he was great,” Hoynes said. “He went through the mill this year and it really never affected him. He was just the same guy day in and day out. He loved to pitch and he really liked playing on this ball club.” Allard’s performance in the final stretch of the season was particularly impressive. In his last five appearances, he pitched 10⅓ innings, striking out 9 batters and not allowing a single earned run while facing 35 batters. He was a reliable arm during the Guardians’ playoff push, stepping up precisely when the team needed him most. The roster reshuffling also included parting ways with Matt Krook, catcher Dom Nunez, and infielder Will Wilson. All five players declined their outright assignments to Triple-A Columbus, electing free agency instead. These moves bring Cleveland’s 40-man roster to 37 players, creating flexibility ahead of the Rule 5 draft protection deadline. While the business rationale makes sense – creating roster space for emerging prospects and managing payroll – it’s a stark reminder of baseball’s unsentimental nature. For players like Lively and Allard who answered the call when Cleveland needed them most, their rewards came in contributions to a winning season rather than roster security. It’s a harsh reality that even beloved clubhouse presences and clutch performers aren’t immune to the cold calculations that drive off-season decision-making. Podcast transcript Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes. Hoynsie, lots of moves for the guardians regarding their 40 man roster. One of the biggest moves announced was declining the six million dollar option on John Means, the left hander who signed with Cleveland back in February. A $1 million deal last year with a $6 million option for 2026. The club turned that option down. Means now becomes a free agent. He was around the team basically all season, rehabbing, but never actually got on the major league mound and threw a pitch for Cleveland. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t have an influence or an impact on the organization around the team. You know, Stephen Vogt was, was constantly talking about him and having him around and what a, you know, good pro and a good guy to have in the clubhouse. You know what went into the decision to, to not pick up means option for $6 million? Paul Hoynes: Joe? I think things probably, they really, rotation really solidified, especially in the second half, you know, in really in September when they went with the six man rotation. That kind of put Means on, on the outside looking in. I mean in, in a normal season, you know, when a team is 15 and a half games back and they don’t overcome that deficit, we would have gotten a chance to see Means at least in September for a couple starts. But with the Guardians going down the stretch and trying to win the central and in content there, there wasn’t a lot of time or a lot of opportunities to give him a chance to get back on the mound. So that may have played something into it and just the depth of the Guardian, starting pitching, you know, probably, you know, gave them an out where, okay, you know, this, it’s, it isn’t a necessity that we bring this guy back. Joe Noga: Yeah. And they also had a bunch of left handed pitchers emerge as well. You know, maybe there’s something to having a balance there in terms of your options but you know, you can’t, can’t deny that he’s, he was the only guy in that clubhouse, you know, positive, you know, to, to see him around in between starts and in between rehab outings. Never really complaining and, and always you know, feeling like eager like hey, I’m ready to go, ready to go. But like you said, the opportunity never materialized but he didn’t go around, you know, stomping or you know, have being in a mood or anything like that because the team was winning and the team was doing the things needed to get back into the race in September there. So he was always, you know, we, we asked constantly asking questions. Our colleague Tim Stebbins, it was, was constantly on John Means watch in the clubhouse. I think he might have, he might have interviewed him in the, the clubhouse more times than anybody else on the, on the Guardians beat this season. But John Means, we hardly knew you. Hoynsy, you wrote earlier this week about the Guardians really solidifying their reputation as a rehab destination for pitchers coming off of Tommy John surgery, coming off of arm injuries and, and working their way back to the major league mound. We saw it with Matthew Boyd, we saw it with Shane Bieber. Again, John Means the reputation must be out there. But, but it goes back a little further even because we did some digging after the Padres announced that Craig Stamen is going to be their new manager. Stamen, 41 years old, longtime veteran relief pitcher in major League Baseball. He spent a season in 2016 basically doing the same thing coming off of flexor tendon surgery and you know, he wasn’t ready to open the season with the big league club and so he opened and did his rehab and stayed in the minors that, that whole season after signing with Cleveland in February of that year and never threw a P for the Indians back then in Terry Francona and then wound up signing with San Diego and, and lo and behold, what, nine years later, he’s the pa. The Padres manager because he spent the remainder of his career in San Diego. Went right into working with the front office and you know, it, the, the whole reputation for Cleveland being a sort of a rehab factory for pitchers might have started with Craig Stamen, who’s now got a major league managing job. Paul Hoynes: Definitely Joe and he, you know, he kind of got a second chance at his career after spending a year rehabbing in Cleveland. He, you know, he reestablished himself in the bullpen and right. And look where it has led. So, you know, that reputation has got to, you know, spread throughout baseball. It’s probably known throughout baseball. I’m sure that, you know, if you’re a pitcher in a, in a position like Boyd or Bieber or means, you know, you’re looking to finish off that your rehab and get back to the big leagues. You, this is the place to be. Cleveland is the place to be. Look what happened with Boyd. He comes back, he finishes his rehab in 2024. I think he go, he makes seven starts with Cleveland, then he makes three or four more in the postseason and he signs what, a two year, $30 million deal with the Cubs. This and you know, same with Bieber. He comes you know, he, he spends basically a year and a half rehabbing with Cleveland. They trade him to Toronto. He ends up pitching in the World Series and decided to pick up his club, his player option and return to Toronto for the 2026 season. So, you know, you know, it doesn’t always work out that way that, that well, but it certainly is, you know, doesn’t hurt the Guardian’s reputation for attracting pitchers that are trying to, you know, get a second shot at their career. Joe Noga: It’s just interesting to see that, you know, we see those trends and we see those things develop over the, the recent history, but you dig a little deeper and you go back and you, you say, hey, didn’t that guy pitch in Cleveland or wasn’t he signed in Cleveland way back when? And yeah, it turns out that this is the, the root of, of all of the, that that trend for, for pitcher rehab is. It might have started with Craig Stamen. So congratulations to him and, and good luck to John Means as he goes, goes out and tries to find a home next year. I’m sure there will be teams looking to sign him and opportunities for him somewhere in the majors next year. Also, the Guardians announced yesterday a series of roster moves that, that cleared some space on the 40 man roster. They outrighted pitchers Ben Lively, Colby Allard, Matt Crook and catcher Dom Nunez, as well as infielder Will Wilson. They outrated them to Triple A and all five of those players declined the outright. They elected free agency for, for next season. So all, all five of those guys are free agents. I, I guess, you know, Ben Lively, a bit of a surprise. He, he would have probably made a little bit over $2 million in arbitration coming off of another guy coming off of reconstructive elbow surgery. He’s going to be a guy without a team, you know, next season. You know. What’d you think of them cutting Ben Lively loose? Paul Hoynes: I was a little surprised, Joe. I guess, you know, he could have accepted the outright. He continued his rehab with the organization, but he must be feeling pretty good about his elbow and his future if he, you know, declined the, declined the, the, you know, the outright and, and decided to be a free agent. So hopefully nothing but good thoughts for Ben Lively. He was a great guy, Joe, as you said in subtext. Just a delight to talk to and just to be around. He’s one of those guys that will say anything at any know. Hopefully he bounces back and, you know, is back on the mound at some point in 2026. Joe Noga: Yeah, I mean this is a guy who’s he’s pretty much done it all in his major league career or his professional career. You know, he pitched in Korea. He, he’s, he’s been through injuries before he started. He’s relieved. He’s pretty much accepted any role that Cleveland or, you know, other teams have had for him. But really, I go back to that, you know, coming out of spring training and he was delayed a little bit with, you know, illness coming out of spring training in 2024. But when he joined the, the Cleveland rotation, I believe they were in Boston early in the season. Maybe the, the first road trip after coming home from the west Coast. You know, Lively was just a revelation in the starting rotation in 2024. He really kept things together for a group that, that wasn’t as dominant as they were in 2025. They needed Ben Lively to step up and he did big time. Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think he made what a bun, you know, 29. I forgot. I’m not sure what, what, how many starts he made. But you’re right, Joe, because they had all those injuries. Heber went down early in the season. They had a lot of, you know, they really needed a veteran presence and he came in there and just, he dealt. He was, he was really good. He was, he was one of their best pitchers, maybe the best pitcher on the staff. And I know Stephen Vogt really appreciated, you know, the work he did. You know, he was pitched when he wasn’t feeling great. He pitched through a lot of aches and pains and he just, you know, he, he really showed. I think he, he led the way for the rest of that staff. Joe Noga: Yeah. In 2024 he started 29 games for Cleveland. 51 innings, 118 strikeouts. Just a, a really good all around season. Produced a, a 1.5 WAR according to Baseball Reference. Just a good, you know, stretch there last year. Nine starts before going down with the elbow injury. A total 44⅔ innings with 29 strikeouts. But, you know, had surgery in May and really that his, one of his injuries was one of the early indications that there was adversity to come for Cleveland throughout the course of the 2025 season. And they overcame it. It was a big plus. But I remember seeing him and Will Brennan in Arizona when the team played at Chase Field and those guys were rehabbing their elbow surgeries together out at the, the Goodyear training complex. And they were among the players that came over for that series and were in the clubhouse and there were a bunch of high fives and pranks and you know, head taps. And all sorts of stuff as they were there and it was just good to see them interacting. I think. Will Brennan said there are some dark days when you’re, you’re out there and all there’s to do is rehab in Arizona and so a time like that was a big plus for them. Speaking of Will Brennan, Will Brennan, Sam Hentges and Andrew Walters were added to the roster from the 60 day injured list. They were activated off the injured list, added to the roster so they’ll be protected for the Rule 5 draft or when you have to have your roster set. But that doesn’t mean that one of those guys isn’t still a candidate for non tender just right now that their, their situation is they’re back on the 40 man. As of right now the 40 man is at 37. But I want to go back to a couple of guys that were among those outrated. Colby Allard, kind of a surprise there as well. Guy who, you know, stepped forward, started a couple of games for them, pitched in 33 games for Cleveland this season and, and really had some, had some big moments nonetheless of which was striking out Riley Green in that third, third game of a three game sweep in Detroit in September. I thought, you know, Kobe, Kobe Allard, former, you know, number one pick, came out and really gave them a veteran presence in the bullpen and they decided to part ways with him. Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe. And that, that game against Detroit, he hadn’t pitched I think in 14 days and he came out and did that. You know this was, he was, he did everything the guardians asked to him. He goes 2 and 2, 2.63 ERA, 33 games, 42 strikeouts, 14 walks,261 batting average against, you know, he, he was great, Joe. And you know, he was kind of, you know, he got outrighted. Right then they, they resigned him to a minor league contract and they brought him back up. He went through the mill. Yes. Last year and it really never affected him. He was just, he was the same guy day in and day out. He loved to pitch and he really liked on like playing on this ball club. Joe. I, I would not be surprised if they tried to get him back but you know, other teams probably took notice as well. So we’ll have to see what happens with Allard. Joe Noga: Yeah, he had, you know, maybe, maybe one or two, you know, rough outings in the, the beginning of the year. But down the stretch, late in the season, beginning with I think what appearance in, in late August, he made his last five appearances, 10 innings pitched, nine strikeouts. He faced 35 batters and did not allow an earned run over 10, 10 to third innings. Just, you know, he was, he showed that sort of veteran presence that they needed. And you know, every year is different, every bullpen is different, but this was, this was Kobe Eller’s year to sort of step forward and be one of the guys there. Sort of under the radar, but a big part of what the, the Guardians did in, in 2025. And, and you talk about, you know, a guy like Dom Nunez who, you know, it doesn’t make, it doesn’t move the needle when Dom Nunez signs in the off season to be the, or to be one of the six catchers they need when pitchers and catchers report in February. But this is a guy who stayed ready at AAA all year long and finally got, he got a shot when Austin Hedges went on the concussion list for a week. He made two appearances in games for Cleveland during that stretch and then at the end of the year he was, he was up with the club at the end of the season as a part of the taxi squad. Paul Hoynes: Yeah, good. A good, you know, kind of veteran catcher. Joe he spent some time in the big leagues with the Rockies before he came Cleveland. You know, just a good solid depth piece catcher and you know, he got a couple hits when he, when he got a chance to play for, you know, for Cleveland. You know, solid guy and you know, another guy that, you know, people are always looking for catchers, you know, depth wise. Cleveland probably could, could bring him back. I’m not sure, but I think he’s going to have a job somewhere. Joe yeah. Joe Noga: As far as a guy finally getting a shot, Will Wilson finally got his shot. Former number one pick of the Angels and he was a minor league phase of the Rule 5 draft selection last December. He finally gets his shot, makes his big league debut with the, with the Guardians. Didn’t, didn’t play a whole lot and was up and down between Cleveland and Columbus. But the one thing we found out Will Wilson can do is, is lay down on the sacrifice bunt. He did it five times this year, tying Angel Martinez for the, the team lead. He did it in safety squeeze situations. He was, was really good at that. There were, there were times when he, he kind of surprised and showed a little bit. Will Wilson did, but he was never going to get the chance here in Cleveland with the talent they have in the, the middle of the infield. And with Jose Ramirez playing third there, there was really nowhere for him to play, you know, all that much. Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Stephen Bolt loved him. Joe because he could do the squeeze bunt. And, and Stephen, Stephen Vogt loves the squeeze bunt and you know, Wilson just kept getting it down time after time. So you know, he made an imprint there. So any. And you’re right, he made his big league debut after what, one, two, three, four, five, six, maybe seven years in the minors. Starting seven years in the minors. So good for him. Good guy. Hopefully, you know, he, he keeps his career rolling and gets a shot somewhere. Joe Noga: Oh, a lot of, a lot of movement on the, on the, the 40 man roster. The non tender deadline coming up I believe sometime next week, right? Paul Hoynes: Yeah, the non tender deadline is. Will be 21st, November 1st. They’ve gotten in, you know, so they’ve got some candidates there obviously. But you know, and on Joe, I checked this a couple times. I think they’ve, you know, they’ve still got to, you know, on, on the 18th, November 18th, they’ve got to set their 40 man roster. I guess what they have three open spots and you know, that Friday they can still manipulate the roster a little. Joe Noga: Bit and you know there’s always some movement, there’s always some, some young guys added to the 40 man that are a surprise. We know there’s a couple of candidates in that regard. Guys like Angel Genao and Wilfredo Antuniez, minor leaguers who are sort of right there at the cusp of being ready to start sort of that, that major league cycle in their, in their future. Just, you know, are there any names that you expect to see added to that in ro? Paul Hoynes: I would think those two guys you just mentioned, angel on our. What he started in the Arizona Fall League this, this fall but had to leave, right? Joe Noga: Yeah, he had a shoulder, he had a shoulder injury. Angel Janelle, Cody Huff, Milan Tolentino, Wilfredo Antunez and Khalil Watson are all position players that all are eligible for the Rule 5 draft this year would need to be added. Jormun Gomez, Dylan Delucia, Austin Peterson, Trenton Denholm and Ryan Webb as well as Steven Perez are our pitchers. You can’t keep all of them. I know Watson’s a guy who’s made some appearances in spring training. He’s played some, some center field, you know, a guy they got for Josh Bell a couple years back at the trade deadline. What are the chances they add Watson? Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I think, you know, he’s really a talented guy, good athlete. You know, he, he, you know, he’s got some pop. So I think there a shot there that they, they could add him definitely Joe and you know, just what they need another outfielder that we’ve got. There’s so many outfielders on his club that no one has really kind of separated themselves except Quan. So it’s going to be interesting to see just how that mix unfolds. Joe Noga: And you look at a guy like Tolentino, a 2020 draft pick, fourth round draft pick, he was a high school pick. He hit 21 home runs this year for, you know, Columbus and, and he was injured in and out of the lineup a couple of times. A guy with, you know, 21 home runs, 66 RBIs and in just under 400 at bats. Paul Hoynes: Yeah, interesting guy. You know, he can play the middle infield, he can play third base. His dad I think was a big leaguer. So, you know, just, you know, he showed some pop, he’s got some swing and miss in that. The power was, was really interesting in it and it came to bear, you know, came to the forefront this season or this past season with Columbus. So you know, for a team dying for runs, dying for offense, you know that he picked a good time to. Joe Noga: Break out as far as the rosters being set and all, you know, we’ll wait to see next week, what happens there. But you know, there are three spots right now on the 40 man roster. There could be more if they non tender guys that, that are on the roster. You know, we’ve talked about, you know, Will Brennan, Nolan Jones, we’ve talked about the, the glut of outfielders now that they have maybe needing to make room for some of the younger guys on that roster. Might not be, you know, what was the year that they had 12 guys added to the 40 man roster in one time? Was that 2021 or 2022? It was just a crazy number of additions there. It might not be that many, but there, there will be several guys added to the roster to protect them from the Rule 5 draft as they need to keep developing their talent at the minor league level. Speaking of developing talent at the minor league level, Angel Espino, fall all star for the Arizona Fall League. Espino, a former number one pick for the Guardians, he’s been pitching in a very controlled sort of environment out there in Arizona, but he went one and oh. In four and two thirds scoreless innings and four appearances, Arizona in Arizona, struck out seven batters, didn’t allow a run and he’s a fall all star in the afl. That’s got to feel good for Daniel Espino as he makes his way back, you know, pitching competitively for the first Time in almost two and a half years. Paul Hoynes: Sure. This is a guy that’s, you know, we know, you know, he throws hard and he hasn’t lost any Velo, Joe. They’ve been very, very careful with him. Obviously watching his innings pitched in Arizona, it seems, you know, that they’ve accomplished what they’ve wanted to accompl accomplish and now, you know, the next step is where does he start the 2026 season, Joe? Is it, is it at Arizona in the complex league? Or does he, you know, maybe go to a Lynchburg or, or a high A at at Lake County? You know that those are probably the next steps for Espino. Joe Noga: I’ve got to imagine that he stays with the, the Arizona complex where they, they can control more of what he does out there than if he goes to an affiliate that’s there’ control over his innings and his routines and all that. So I think they’re going to really take their time. Do you see a possibility that, that he could, you know, I, I guess he’s, he’s on the 40 man roster already. We, we’ve got to see this guy in the majors, right? Paul Hoynes: Yeah, I would think so, Joe. I mean, you know, they’ve been so careful with this guy. Joe Noga: At some point the clock is going to start on him at the major league level. So it’s, it’s coming. Paul Hoynes: I mean, and the way they used them, obviously I don’t think he’s a starter anymore. I think he would be a bullpen guy. Right. So hopefully that, that speeds up his progress. Joe Noga: Yeah, I don’t know, man. They’ve been, they’ve been starting him every game in the, the fall league and they’re going to prepare him as a starter. I think we asked Chris Antonetti that question and they sort of, they’re, they’re a little dodgy about it, but yeah, I could, I could see him as a reliever, sure. But you know, I think every guy you, you come out like the way Espino had been and such a highly touted prospect. I think he wants to try and start first. But we’ll see, we’ll see where they go with it. Speaking of seeing where they go with it, Ryu is interested to find out that the Cleveland Browns have lost one of their executives. Back to baseball goes Paul DiPodesta, who had spent the last, what, nine years masterminding the Browns demise, I guess. How great have the Browns been in the last, you know, nine seasons? All thanks to Paul D. Podesta’s guidance. From, from afar. This is A guy who was hired by the Haslams almost a decade ago, and it’s coincided with one of the just the worst decades of Browns football in franchise history. DePodesta had baseball roots going back to his work with Billy Beane and the Moneyball Athletics, you know, immortalized by Jonah Hill in the Moneyball movie as a character that was sort of a mashup of a bunch of different guys, mainly Paul D. Podesta. But he goes and now is taking over baseball operations for the Rockies. So my question to you, Paul, is can he, he do for the, the Rockies what he did for the Browns, or will he do for the Rockies what he did for the Browns? Paul Hoynes: Well, Joe, he’s taken over a team in the Rockies. If indeed the reports are right. He is going to be, you know, one of, you know, take either the president of baseball operations or the GM there. He has taken over a team in the Rockies that, that have, that have pretty much played like the Browns over the last several years. I mean, they lost 119 games last is. And, you know, whoever’s been in, in who’s ever, you know, run those clubs in Arizona, I mean, in Denver, at Mile, at Coors Field, it’s a hard place to play. It’s a tough place to win. And no one has really found a formula to be a consistent winner there because of the altitude, because of the strain on pitchers. And D. Podesta, who got to start with the Guardians before moving to the A’s, you know, he’s got his hands full. If that’s his, if that’s where he ends up. I mean, just really, really a tough job, a tough and a tough road to hoe in the future going. You know, Coors Field just, I mean, it’s, I don’t know. I mean, I’m glad Deep Odessa is back in baseball. He’s a good guy. He’s had a lot of experience, but he’s been away from the game for a while and things have changed. So, you know, it’ll be an interesting transition for sure. Joe Noga: Yeah. And if you go, oh, and 162, they don’t throw a parade for you in the baseball. So, you know, don’t, don’t forget that. That’s, that happened under Paul D. Podesta. So, yeah, just for sure, a lot of changes there and, you know, got a lot of Cleveland connections to that, that hiring, but will be interesting to see. You know, he, he will probably be taking over a franchise that’s about as far away from winning a World Series. As any club in baseball. All right, Hoynes, that’s going to wrap up today’s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. We will be back next week. To recap. Silver Slugger awards and all sorts of award week festivities going on. And we’ll talk to you about it then. Paul Hoynes: Good deal.
