COLUMBUS, Ohio — As Ohio State returns to Columbus for its only home game of October, it does so with some issues to solve.
On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis break down everything Ryan Day said during his weekly press conference, where the major talking point was special teams, a former five-star defensive lineman and OSU’s offensive approach.
Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk and sign up to get text messages from experts Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis at 614-350-3315. Get the insider analysis, have your voice heard on the Buckeye Talk podcast and connect with the best Buckeye community out there.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Stephen Means (00:00.255)
that it’s about special teams.
Stephen Means (00:08.573)
Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I’m Stephen Means and that’s Stefan Krasnick and that is Andrew Gillis. This is your Wednesday pod. Later on this afternoon at noon, we’ll be going live on YouTube and we’ll be talking Big Ten quarterbacks. goal, we’re all three going to come with our different list of who we think the five best quarterbacks are in the Big Ten and why. we have to have, we’re going to talk about, you know, criteria for why I can’t just because I think that guy looks good. Like, no, what’s your criteria?
And we’re also going to discuss whether or not we think the Big Ten is the best quarterback conference in college football right now, because I do think there’s at least two other conferences who can make us really strong case. I the Big 12 and the SEC, probably ACC, I think coming into the year probably had a strong case. And then they started playing football. And then we remember that it’s the Atlantic Coastal Conference. And so, you know, at the football thing. But for right now, we talked with Ryan Day Tuesday afternoon as Ohio State prepares to play Minnesota on Saturday and what’s going to be their only
home game in the next month. We’re about to be on the road, man. You guys ready? Bucket talk on the road. You ready to say goodbye to your homes for the next couple of weekends after this?
Stefan Krajisnik (01:15.424)
Can’t wait.
Andrew Gillis (01:15.552)
No, yeah, no, but yeah, I guess I have to be like the funny part is I’m not even going to be at the Illinois game, but like I’m actually traveling further than you guys are for that weekend. My cousin’s getting married, so I’m going to that wedding and you guys are traveling, I think five hours and I think I’m going seven. So I’m still I’m just going the opposite direction than Illinois.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:37.91)
There was there. And listen, I love Madison, Wisconsin. Let me get out front and say, I think it’s one of the best college towns in the big 10, if not the best college town in the big 10. There was one point where I was, there was one point where I was walking through Seattle, thinking to myself, what’s left on the schedule is West Lafayette, Champaign, Illinois and Ann Arbor, Michigan. And Ann Arbor, Michigan in late November.
Andrew Gillis (01:52.513)
yeah.
Stephen Means (01:59.817)
So I think.
Andrew Gillis (01:59.874)
But yeah, was gonna say they’re not at the most peak times of year.
Stephen Means (02:03.223)
I’ll say that I think. Seattle and Columbus are more major city than college town, so I don’t even put them in the category of like, what’s the best college town? Because you have normal things to do outside of the fall months, right? Because I go to Seattle any time I like. You guys enjoyed it, Seattle, right? Seattle is fun, but I wouldn’t. I would go back even if it wasn’t to watch a college football game, I would go to Seattle and like, you know.
Stefan Krajisnik (02:09.472)
Right.
Stefan Krajisnik (02:22.538)
Seattle,
Andrew Gillis (02:23.846)
I love Seattle.
Stephen Means (02:31.247)
April or something like that. Same thing with Columbus. Ann Arbor, Madison, Champaign, State College. Why are you there on April 2nd? What are you doing?
Andrew Gillis (02:43.278)
We, I remember we were standing in line for, I remember like, first off, I think I like tweeted this before the game, that how I was very glad that like, you know, the Pac-12 merged basically. But I remember I told Stefan like when we were like in Seattle, was like, yeah, I don’t want to live out here. I don’t think I could, it’s too far away from everything. And then I think we were standing in line for the Space Needle. And I went, you know what, Stefan, I think I could live out here actually. This city’s great.
Stephen Means (02:59.198)
Now
Stephen Means (03:08.159)
I think if we were from the West Coast, I could live there. But I’m from the Midwest. my entire family would be on an entirely different time zone than me. And so that’s the only reason I wouldn’t live in Seattle because that’s because LA you’re just kind of in the mix a little bit more. Seattle is very much out the way. It’s beautiful out there, though. It’s beautiful. It’s just very much out the way.
Stefan Krajisnik (03:29.654)
It’s no West Lafayette in November though.
Stephen Means (03:32.735)
It’s no West Lafayette November though. It’s not gonna get you out like that Well, we talked with Ryan day ahead of Ohio State’s game gets in Minnesota, which is another fake college town because Minneapolis is a beautiful city I hope you guys when did they go to Minnesota because they’ve played Minnesota three times and they keep getting them at home
I don’t know, but it’s it’s it’s one would. OK, cool. I’m going to Philly buster until you find that answer, because I don’t want to come back to this. I want to end this so we can talk about special teams, because that’s what also is special is the teams. You have the answer yet, Andrew? This is this is terrible. OK, so two more years to worry.
Andrew Gillis (03:52.28)
I’ll an answer for you in a minute. I’m Googling it.
Andrew Gillis (04:06.926)
No, it’s not, it’s not 20, 2027. 2027, in 2027 it’s at Michigan, at Minnesota, at Northwestern, at Oregon, at Rutgers. That’s a great weekend. get, and we’ll the end, I mean, the Michigan game, we Minneapolis. Yes. Michigan. We go to Ann Arbor, so that’s whatever. Minneapolis. I’ve heard nothing but great things about Minneapolis. Northwestern is Chicago. I think their new stadium will be ready by then. Oregon. I mean that.
I mean, I think we all enjoyed that trip. And then Rutgers, we get to go to New York City if you want, or you could just stay in Piscataway.
Stephen Means (04:43.88)
That’s a lot of flying. That’s a lot of flying.
Andrew Gillis (04:47.342)
It’s a lot of flying. My United credit card, I am going to have some miles.
Stephen Means (04:53.34)
That is a lot of flying. OK, nobody cares. These are these are journalism problems. Nobody cares about these problems. Anyway, they do care about the special teams problems. Brandon Innis had a really good punt return and then he fumbled it. And Stefan, it doesn’t sound like that’s a I’m not going say it’s not a big deal. You turn the ball over. You can’t turn the ball over. But it doesn’t sound like from Ryan Day’s perspective, Brandon Innis has done anything over the past four weeks that suggests he shouldn’t.
be the punt returner, which is on the contrary to I think the way that people in the media and maybe some of the fans feel,
Stefan Krajisnik (05:31.744)
Yeah, I Ryan Day looked on the positive side on the positive side when talking about the punt return game, specifically with Brandon Innis. know, he talked about how the return before the fumble was good and then he fumbled and he talked about how there was a good return against Ohio that he liked. know, I, to Brandon Innis’ credit, something we talked about, you know, after week one and week two was the hidden yards, right? And not fielding punts and letting them bounce. There hasn’t been a ton of that against Ohio and Washington.
Stephen Means (05:56.217)
yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (06:01.654)
I don’t know if any of us are overly concerned about Brandon and it’s being a ball security problem, right? So you, if, if you feel like the fumble was kind of a one-off and you know, that’s its own thing. And I go back and forth on how I feel about it. Cause I think, you know, they kind of walked this fine line of a balance of, know, there’s a lot of good, you have to acknowledge the good, but you also have to acknowledge the bad and maybe.
Maybe you find this middle ground where they still trust Brandon Innis and they think that the mistakes are kind of anomalies and they’ll get themselves strained out. Listen, if you’re a fan, get it. You know, I probably agree with you in some ways of, you know, even if it’s one problem here, one problem here, one problem here, like it’s not like a repeat thing over and over again of the same thing happening over and over again. You know, it’s still kind of annoying because you’re like, well, the problems aren’t going away.
Right? Like you just want it to be clean. And I don’t care if, if all these issues feel like one offs, I want there to be no issues at all. So I get that perspective of a fan or just anybody critiquing the punt return unit with Brandon in his back there. But I do also understand Ryan Day’s perspective where he said, if Brandon in this doesn’t fumble, nobody’s questioning Brandon and his being back there. So it’s like two things can be true. I guess, like that was a great return, but also.
Things just keep happening in the punt return unit when he’s back there. And at some point, do you just make a change because you feel like it’s time to make a change? I don’t, I don’t know the answer to it. I think all three of us are in agreement that if it was the biggest punt return of Ohio state season happening right now, who would you want back there? We’d all say Caleb Downs. He’s sure handed. He’s explosive. He can do a lot of different things because he’s done a lot of different things in a punt return unit in his career, including last year against Indiana. But.
They want Brandon back there clearly. I don’t think putting someone like JJ back there is really an option because you don’t want to give him more hits. What was that? Yeah. And I’m sure some of the same applies to Caleb Downs. I the guy led you in snaps last year, if I’m not mistaken. So I get it. I get it. But at the same time, the mistakes just keep happening. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just a bad vibes thing. Hey, change it because the vibes aren’t good.
Stephen Means (08:01.64)
Please don’t. Please don’t.
Stefan Krajisnik (08:23.502)
I don’t know, because something’s just off in a public junior. There’s always something coming up. And Ohio State’s kind of hell bent on, we’ll fix it with what we’ve got.
Stephen Means (08:34.428)
And if we’re about anything here at book, I talk or about the vibes. Most importantly, everything else comes second to the vibes.
Stefan Krajisnik (08:39.72)
It’s all weird. If nothing else, we’ll bring you the vibes.
Stephen Means (08:43.474)
We’ll bring you the vibes at all costs. Andrew, I’m interested to see if we see Caleb Downs back there. I don’t think we’re going to see it this weekend because there’s because why do you need to have Caleb Downs back there against Minnesota, Illinois? Maybe because that’s probably going to be a ranked game. Penn State, probably Michigan, probably.
Andrew Gillis (09:04.018)
Wisconsin. well, I see what you’re doing.
Stefan Krajisnik (09:09.366)
Let me push back real quick though. Let me push back real quick. Because we all predicted a blowout in Seattle. And I’m sure there’s going to be some blowouts predicted for this game against Minnesota. With Ohio State playing offense the way that they’re playing, and let’s say against Minnesota they get eight or nine possessions as opposed to the seven that they got against Washington, it doesn’t matter how…
Stephen Means (09:13.843)
Good.
Stephen Means (09:17.629)
Uh-huh.
Stephen Means (09:23.656)
Sure.
Stefan Krajisnik (09:35.83)
quality or not quality opponent is if you’re only got eight possessions you can’t risk a whole lot in the opponent unit regardless of who you’re playing.
Stephen Means (09:47.046)
Was it not a blowout against Washington?
Andrew Gillis (09:52.11)
don’t think it was until like the fourth quarter to like the like the last kind of few minutes there.
Stefan Krajisnik (10:00.618)
Yeah, until Jayden Fielding’s last field goal, was still a two possession game.
Stephen Means (10:07.656)
So the score was not a blowout.
but.
Ryan Day said they had 16 plays of 62 plays that were. Of at least 10 yards. And he said they had 25 plays that released eight yards as 26 % of their plays went for 10 plus yards. 40 % of their plays went for eight plus yards and we just talked to Ryan Day. So maybe I’m looking at some things differently. I’m doing the thing you guys joked and said I do on Saturdays where I start out hot and then I gradually.
throughout the week get cooler and cooler and cooler just to get ramped right back up every Saturday. So maybe this is a me problem.
Ohio State had six possessions because they had one possession where they held onto the ball for eight minutes and decided before they scored, right? They got slower to start off the second half, but also Brandon has fumbled in what was key field position. Did you think… So here’s their time of possession per drive. Eight minutes and 40 seconds turnover on downs. On a fourth and one where otherwise they would have scored.
Stephen Means (11:22.75)
And then their next one was 10 minutes and 36 seconds and they punt it. And then they had a one minute drive to close out the first half when they scored the touchdown. You know, when they finally started going up tempo and acting like they were the office they were supposed to be. And then they slowed right back down. Next drive where they scored their second touchdown in the game, seven minutes and 19 seconds. Then when they had the field goal, that made it a 17 to six lead, I believe 13 minutes and 19 seconds.
And then on their final touchdown draw, four minutes and 56, like they’re playing slower. it’s there to the point of it is the offense playing. I don’t think the offense is playing bad. I don’t think Washington stopped Ohio State. think Ohio State decided we don’t need to do more than this to win the football game. And it doesn’t take away from your point of if you’re only going to have six possessions in a game, you can’t fumble your seventh possession away. I agree with you with that. But there’s an element with the offense right now.
of doing what is necessary while working on what needs to be worked on. And that’s the way Ryan Day talked about things on Tuesday when I asked him like two different questions about like, Hey, your defense is awesome. Does that mean your offense can kind of chill? No, Steven, it can’t chill. How dare you say that to me? I’m stressed out right now in my button up shirt. Meanwhile, PJ Fleck is all chest out.
But from the special teams perspective, before we move completely into the offensive part of this, Andrew, I, I, I don’t know if the office is as bad as maybe I thought it was. It’s not as good as it needs to be obviously, but I don’t know if Brandon in his costume, a seventh possession against Washington doesn’t mean that the offense didn’t do whatever it wanted to do. It just chose to not do it more for, cause then maybe some of that is road game.
You’re up by three scores. We don’t really need to do much else. But I don’t think. I just don’t think we’re going to see Caleb Downs back at punt returner unless they’re playing a matchup game. And maybe the Illinois game is a matchup game. Maybe it’s not in Penn State, even if none of us think Penn State can win that game, it is a matchup game. And then the Michigan game will be a matchup game. And we saw Caleb Downs back there in the playoff. But other than that.
Stephen Means (13:42.803)
Brandon in his fumble. So we’re talking about it. He’s cleaned up the the empty yards conversation. And now if he holds on to the football, it doesn’t sound like people have a problem with him. It’s just he fumbled and that’s on top of everything else he did. So I think all these issues have compiled to the point where maybe we’re making a big issue out of something that may or may not be a big issue. And I don’t even know if what I said makes any sense.
Andrew Gillis (14:07.862)
No, like it is it is interesting kind of how they do it. Like Ryan Day has talked so much for these last two years about like keeping snap counts down and making sure players are fresh and making sure players are ready to go for the end of the year. So like I get the idea of like having Caleb Downs back there in the right moment, but not in a particular situation because like there are YouTube compilations that you can go look up of.
biggest football hits and like half of them are punt returners running up to go catch a ball and just getting absolutely drilled and I don’t know. I don’t know if you want to do that in the wrong situation like my favorite movie Friday Night Lights booby miles got hurt when the game was like 42 to nothing. You don’t want that.
Stephen Means (14:43.857)
Yup.
Stephen Means (14:57.52)
That was on booby though, nobody told him to go in the game, he did that himself.
Andrew Gillis (15:01.462)
No, Chris Comer forgot his helmet. I didn’t know where his helmet was. That’s why he went in the game, which isn’t the way it happened in real life, but it’s the movie. So the movie’s true. I think that’s like, you don’t want Caleb to go out there when it’s the thing that I’ve been trying to think of too, is like, you don’t want Caleb to go out there when it’s 24 to nothing against Minnesota in the first drive of the third quarter. And Minnesota is punting to you.
And then it’s like, okay, well, if he gets drilled or if he takes two unnecessary hits that he doesn’t need to take, like, do you, do you really want to do that? But then you also want him to get reps to where it’s not, Hey, we’re beating Penn State 17 to 10, and we’re trying to put the game away late. You know, Caleb go punt return for the first time since nom like that. That’s not the way to do it. So I, I, I’ve kind of been going back and forth on how you do it, but I do agree that there is.
Kind of a pecking order there. And I think it’s kind of when you need it, you need him, you need him out there. And when you don’t, you don’t. And it’s just kind of a look thing. And it’s just kind of a field thing for Ryan Day. If you need to spark offensively, you know, if you need something to show up, whether that’s Illinois, whether that’s Penn State, whether that’s Michigan, whether that’s some other place, I don’t know, but that needs to be the moment for Caleb.
Stephen Means (16:21.672)
Can I ask Stefan you a question? Because the Caleb Downs thing feels like it’s a ceiling conversation of like, Caleb Downs, if you put him back there, he might get points. Somebody pointed out in our text, six, one, four, three, five, all three, three, one, five. I think like Sunday afternoon or something like that, that Caleb also muffed upon against Tennessee. So he’s not perfect either. But he also you’re pairing that with. At two different schools in two different seasons, Caleb Downs has taken a punt return to the house. So it’s like, OK.
You have muffed one of them, but then you took two of them to the house. So two to one, I’ll take those odds. Do you trust Brandon?
Stefan Krajisnik (17:02.88)
Fully? Probably not. Not yet.
Stephen Means (17:07.122)
And that’s why you’re talking the way you’re talking.
Stefan Krajisnik (17:11.306)
Yeah, I think what kind of bugs me is like, there’s not one… Like if it was just the hidden yards thing every time, I’d be like, all right, there’s a glaring thing that needs to get fixed. If it was ball security every time, whether it’s on offense or on partner returns, I’d say, okay, that’s the thing that needs to get fixed. It’s just, you can’t put your finger on it, but there’s always something. There’s always, know, one thing’s right. know, it’s the one step forward, two steps back thing, I guess, for lack of a better analogy.
Stephen Means (17:20.816)
Uh-huh.
Stephen Means (17:31.198)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (17:37.57)
Mm-hmm. Because even, well, if he doesn’t fumble, well, he did.
Right? So it’s…
Stefan Krajisnik (17:46.006)
That was my problem with what they was saying on Tuesday. Like, I don’t know. You think the Colts are talking to Adonai and Mitchell right now being like, I mean, yeah, that was a sick 87 yard catch. Yeah. You fumbled that out of the back of the end zone and cost us seven points in a game that we lost by seven. He actually ended up costing them 14 points, but you lost, you cost us those seven points, gave me a loss by seven. Like, I don’t think Will Howard was sitting on the sideline being like,
Stephen Means (17:48.349)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (18:00.958)
I’m going to
Stefan Krajisnik (18:14.048)
That run against Penn State was sick. know I fumbled out of the back of the end zone, that fumble or that run was sick. just, you know, just cause it’s not cause it’s special teams. Special teams doesn’t need to get special treatment. It’s a fumble. He fumbled on to play. What was the return like 30 yards or something? If JJ has a 30 yard catch and he fumbles, we are not going to be like, dang, that was a sick catch by Jeremiah Smith.
Stephen Means (18:17.406)
Thank
Andrew Gillis (18:21.032)
Will Howard said it was like the worst game that he played.
Stephen Means (18:30.234)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (18:36.304)
Yeah, that’s fair. That’s a fair point. Andrew, you’ve been here for three years and we’ve been having special teams conversations about it not being special for three years. Maybe the maybe that phase of the game for all states just cursed. Did you ever think about that? Maybe it’s just cursed. Maybe it’s nobody’s fault. It’s just Mother Nature has decided Ohio State can’t be good as special teams. We have. But in all seriousness, Parker Fleming was a special teams coordinator for a long, not a long time. He was a special teams coordinator here for a couple of years.
Rob Keys is like technically the special teams coordinator. He’s just not one of the 10 assistants anymore. So Ryan Day is better maximizing his coaching staff now, but it also isn’t just Rob Keys who’s running things. Rob Keys is in charge of the entire operation. Yes. But his main thing is the punt return. Matt Carrere handles the punt. Nate Ebner from a long snap right. Ohio State who then played for the Patriots for a long time. He handles the kickoff return. James Ornitas handles kickoff.
Tyler Bowen handles field goal and then quality control special teams Sam McGrath handles the field goal for defense on that side. So he is who you credit for. said it differently in the video and you corrected me. Sam McGrath is a person that people need to be crediting for why they were able to sniff out when Washington ran the fake field goal. Terrible fake field goal attempt, but Ohio State was ready for it. Ryan Day even said so as much after the game. Regardless of, we know that Andrew, they need to be better at special teams.
I cannot believe they can’t figure out special teams, but here we are. But do you at least like the way that they are approaching special teams in terms of splitting up the duties versus having one guy be in charge of it? If it means better maximizing your coaching staff, is that part of it at least good?
Stephen Means (20:27.663)
Or do you want them to bring Parker Fleming back?
Andrew Gillis (20:29.912)
But like, so here’s the problem. When I showed up, was you, me and Nathan were talking about this where like, it’s every flipping week with this. It’s every week, there’s a false start, there was a fake that gets run on and that they weren’t ready for. It’s a fake that they tried that they weren’t ready for. It’s just every week. And then that was it was like, your Ohio State and I think that was like back when I think that was maybe the last year that they had like the coaching minimums of like you had 10 coaches and
Stephen Means (20:37.893)
every week, every week.
Andrew Gillis (20:58.36)
you you couldn’t have somebody out on the trail. Stephen, you remember that where it was like you couldn’t have Laurinitis go out on the trail because
Stephen Means (21:02.021)
It’s yeah. And it’s still technically that you can only have 10 coaches out on the road, but you could have more coaches coaching on the field or in practice.
Andrew Gillis (21:10.412)
Yeah, that was what it was. And I remember it was like, how was Lauren Itis not on the trail because of but they had the special teams coordinator and they had the guy at the top. And then you’re like, all right, well, he’s going to coordinate some special teams. And then they didn’t. And then you have this other situation where it’s like, Hey, you know, James Lauren Itis is working with the Higoff team, which is great because a lot of those dudes are linebackers and he’s working hand in hand with those guys.
Stephen Means (21:37.885)
you
Andrew Gillis (21:40.002)
You know, like he mentioned Tyler Bowen working with field goals and like Tyler Bowen, he’s coaching up offensive lineman because offensive lineman are the people who block on field goal and PATs and like, you know, punt return is this, return is that. And he’s just kind of going through the line. It’s like, well it makes sense for Mac Arrear to have this job because he’s working with the guys that he coaches. And then like, it’s still kind of dicey and it just doesn’t really, I don’t know. I’ve seen, this is my third year here and I’ve seen.
Stephen Means (22:04.123)
I think.
Andrew Gillis (22:07.918)
Maybe there’s a hidden third door that I’m somehow missing, but there seems to be two doors, hire a special teams coordinator or having a group by committee. And we’re still having some same conversations that we had a few years ago. like, yeah.
Stephen Means (22:24.433)
Well, yeah, but also it’s at least it’s not the whole. Yeah, it’s it’s we’re really just talk like Brandon and this has been weird on part return for four weeks. And if he if he cleans that up, then maybe this isn’t an issue. I think that’s what Ryan Day saying is Brandon. And this has been fine. He’s just had a couple of mind blips. And if he just cleans up the mind blips were perfectly fine because even I know he got angry, Stefan, that Jaden Fielding had to have two tackles. But he even said it was just a weird fit.
Andrew Gillis (22:28.046)
It’s not as bad as it was, I will say. That part was really…
Stephen Means (22:53.361)
But in the same breath, he complimented Aaron Scott. And that for weeks, they had like 13 times that they had done that they’ve rep that in practice. And he was the first guy to get to the 30 yard line, which is essentially what you are on kickoff. You’re racing to that 30 yard line, but you need to stay on your string. You just stay in your fit because if you don’t, that’s how kick returns for touchdowns happen is because somebody wasn’t where they were supposed to be. Aaron Scott lit somebody up on Saturday.
But that was, that was cool, but they had been seeing that happen for multiple weeks. And as a result, Aaron Scott might get more time on actual defense. So it’s not just going to be, Devin Sanchez has jumped Aaron Scott anymore. No, Aaron Scott is now doing things that make them feel comfortable creating a role for him over the next two. Cause that’s the point, right? You, you get on the field through special teams at Ohio state. at least
I don’t think this is a special teams issue. I think this is a Brandon in this issue and you’re either going to be on the side of, want to see somebody new back there, whether it’s Bryson Rogers, whether it’s JJ, whether it’s putting Caleb downs back there so he can be explosive or you take Brian day at his word and you say, okay, you’re right. He fumbled. And if he doesn’t fumble, everything’s fine. And he’s cleaned up the empty yard is thing. So maybe this is something that Brandon is, is working through.
And I liked the way Ryan Day handled it because he didn’t try to protect one of his team captains who’s in his third year in the program and his second year as a punt returner. And like he just flat out said it, you need to hold onto the ball. And maybe that’s enough for now. And if Brandon Dennis this weekend, we get through punt return and there’s no fumbles. There’s no empty yardage loss. It’s just Andrew gave it a D in a video. If special teams gets to a C by the end of the weekend.
Andrew Gillis (24:48.046)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Means (24:48.103)
then maybe we’re done talking about this.
Stefan Krajisnik (24:54.794)
Be better in the red zone.
Stephen Means (24:57.917)
You
Stefan Krajisnik (24:58.612)
And we don’t have to talk about special teams as much.
Stephen Means (25:01.797)
Let’s take a break and then let’s talk about the red zone hero Buckeye Talk.
Stephen Means (25:08.925)
We’re back here on Buckeye Talk, Stephen V. Stefan Christich and Andrew Gillis. What a response. Be better in the red zone. Ryan Day, Stefan said the goal is 75 % of their red zone trips end in a touchdown. Right now, they are at 65%, which is 62nd nationally. And there are 25 teams in the country who are
As of four or five games in which is what most teams have played, achieving what Ryan Day wants to achieve of 75 % or higher on red zone percent complete touchdowns. Here’s every year I gave this to these guys before we get on the pod. So if you guys want to just like go do something else, as I tell our listeners to this have at it, because I know I’m just repeating myself to you guys, but they don’t know this.
Since Ryan Day got here in 2017, Ohio State has achieved that 75 % touchdown. It’s in the red zone percentage twice. And they were right on the border. Oh, another time in 2017, when he first got here, they were at 66.18%. That was 36 nationally. And there were 11 teams that year who achieved 75 % or higher in 2018. They dropped down to 61.43%. That was 66.
nationally and there were only seven teams around the country who are at 75 percent or higher. That was a thing that year that they couldn’t convert in the red zone. They were awesome in between the 20s, but then they got in the red zone and they were terrible. And then in 2019, they had their best year they’ve had under Ryan Day. And it’s also the first year that he’s the head coach. So he’s not just a play call anymore. Seventy eight point sixty seven percent. That was fourth nationally and they were one of 10 teams who were above 75 percent in 2020. Sixty three point sixty four percent. That was 57 percent nationally and twelve.
And there were 12 teams that year who were of 75 % or higher. And that’s the most of any year since Ryan Day has gotten to Ohio State in 2021. 64.41%. That was 45th nationally, but there were only two teams who were at 75 % or higher. 2022, they flirted with it. 74.60%. That was sixth nationally and they were one of, there were five teams, all five teams ahead of them had 75 % or higher. In 2023, 64%. There was 47.
Stephen Means (27:26.397)
in the country and there were 10 teams that year who was 75 % or higher. And then last year, 75.81 % touchdowns in the red zone. That was fifth nationally and they were one of eight teams who accomplished that. And as I mentioned already, 65 % so far this year, that’s 62nd nationally. Is this a realistic expectation versus a goal that Ohio State is trying to achieve? Should we be holding them to that?
And at the end of the year, they’re at 71 % be going shame on you, you failed.
Andrew Gillis (27:58.751)
I think it’s a fairly reasonable goal actually. I was looking up the 2024 stats through red zone conversions. Shout out CFB stats.
Stephen Means (28:10.237)
Yeah, I just gave it 75.8 81 % is where they were at.
Andrew Gillis (28:13.87)
Yeah, but there were six teams in college football that did that, that were 75 % or higher. The two service academies or two of the service academies, Navy and Army, Indiana, Nevada, Ohio State, Old Dominion, Georgia Southern. Actually there were more than that. There were eight, 2023, there were a handful of teams. were 10. Yeah, so yeah, so it’s like, but I’m just repeating that to say like,
Stephen Means (28:29.885)
eight
Stephen Means (28:36.189)
Yeah, I gave those numbers off. 10 and 23. Yeah.
Andrew Gillis (28:44.142)
You could realistically and should probably realistically have thoughts that Ohio state is in the top 10 in the top six this year. It’s too hard to look at just because it’s so early in the year. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, think actually maybe a little bit more reasonable. Like we were kind of talking about it a little bit earlier. I think it’s more reasonable than you think, especially when you kind of consider what this team has offensively.
You know, I understand it’s talent equated. know, if you have, you know, I don’t know a team that’s, know, Ohio, let’s just use them because they were on the schedule or a team, you know, like Western Kentucky who was on the schedule, you know, they’re going to play more talent equated games to what they were. like even still Ohio state has the talent advantage on pretty much, if not everybody in college football when they have the ball. you know, them scoring 75 % from, you know, from, from that.
scoring touchdowns, I don’t think that that’s unreasonable at all. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all for them to be, you know, over well over 90%. You know, last year’s number one team was an old dominion with 95 % score percentage. You know, if you’re talking like an 80 75 to 80 % touchdown conversion rate, and then the rest are field goals and are most are field goals. And you’re kind of up there at, you know, hovering 91, 92, 93, 94, 95. Like, that should be where this team is at.
When he said it, we were talking about it, we’re like, you know what, maybe we should pump the brakes on this and I don’t think we’re necessarily wrong to think that immediately. And then you kind of look at it and you go, you know what, this is where all the best offenses in the countries are. Why can’t Ohio State hold itself to that standard?
Stephen Means (30:31.933)
She still finds this a realistic expectation or just a goal that they say, yeah, strive for that. if they’re again, if they’re within 7 % of it, is that okay?
Stefan Krajisnik (30:43.702)
I think I lean with the ladder. there are 65 right now, closer to 70, I think would, would be a success. I think if they hovered around 65 all year, here’s the, here’s the one rebuttal though. And I know the stats aren’t going to back it up well right now because they had some impressive numbers against Grambling in Ohio. I would imagine that a lot of those years where Ohio State had lower red zone touchdown percentages, they probably had.
Stephen Means (31:04.646)
Mm-hmm.
Stefan Krajisnik (31:13.8)
a good amount of 50 yard touchdown passes and 40 yard touchdown passes with guys like Olavi and Garrett Wilson and whatever it may be, right? So that is the one thing I would say is if your red zone touchdown percentage is going to be around 65, are you going to start taking some more shots on offense? you know, Washington ran a lot of too high safety and that’s difficult to do. I get it. But if that’s how teams are going to counter and you’re not going to get as many explosive scores,
Stephen Means (31:16.69)
Yep.
Stefan Krajisnik (31:42.08)
then your red zone percentage has to be better. So on the surface from what we know this offense could do, 75 % is a lofty number, right? And maybe more of a goal as opposed to like the bar. But if the explosive scores go down, then you gotta make up for that somewhere. And that’s when, it’s something that like, this is a very cop-out answer. It’s something that we’re probably not gonna be able to judge until like after the regular season ends.
But if I look at the 2025 regular season and the amount of, let’s say 25 plus yard touchdown, so we’ll go outside the red zone. The amount of scores from outside the red zone is significantly lower than it was in years past. And I’m looking at big 10 play. I’m not gonna count the non-conference games just because, Gramley and Ohio shouldn’t count, but then also like they played Texas this year and some years they don’t play as good of team as Texas. So like just looking at big 10 numbers, if the 25 plus yard scores are down,
Stephen Means (32:20.272)
Mm-hmm.
Stefan Krajisnik (32:41.876)
Then yeah, you better be closer to that 75 % in the red zone because you got to get, you got to get these points from somewhere. And, and, and I want to talk percentages because possessions are down, plays are down, all that. Like the total accounting, the county numbers will probably be lower than what they were with a Lave and Wilson just because of the era of football, but era of football as if it wasn’t five years ago, things have changed in the last five years. Percentage wise, if you’re not scoring from, from far out, you better be making up for it when you’re in the red zone.
Stephen Means (33:13.789)
I think if they’re going to play as slow as they’ve been playing that I agree with you, then they need to be converted. Cause again, these are plays per game right now for Ohio state from during Ryan days, tenure 75.1 in 2017, 82.4 in 2018. Those were 37th and fifth nationally in 2019, 78.6. was seventh nationally, 20, 20, 73.9, 43rd nationally. Now they start dropping.
71.7 in 2021, that was 50th nationally in 2022, 68.3. That was 93rd nationally, 2023, 66 % plays per game. was 93rd nationally last year, 62.8. That was 123rd lot nationally. And so far this year, 60.3 plays per game. That’s 126 nationally out of 130 something FPS program. So they’re near the bottom in the amount of plays are running. And that is a combination of
Ohio State is so good that when you play against them, it’s probably not in your best interest to play up tempo unless you know you have the talent to keep up. So teams are going to play slower to eat up clocking into Ohio State. But Ohio State is also eating up clock when it’s playing its game. So if you are going to be in more situations where you’re taking less shots, you’re being less. High up tempo, looking for explosive plays to your point, Stephon.
They have 14 plays of 20 plus yards, 10 plays of 30 plus yards, nine plays of 40 plus yards, three plays of 50 plus yards, two plays of 60 plus yards, one play of 70 plus yards and one play of 80 plus yards. And how many of those came against Grambling? Right. That’s the, that’s part of this math here is, is if you’re going to play this more methodical style, because you’re building towards something, then you can’t get down to the 17 yard line. It gets Washington and it’s fourth and one, you don’t convert.
because Nate Roberts missed a block.
Stephen Means (35:09.263)
And so which for me plays into the special teams. Part of it is. Some of this is the coaching part of it is how they’re choosing to play. I think the personnel players part of it is whether or not they’re executing, because that’s the thing, right? You have to execute at a high, high level if you’re going to have less opportunities to do it. And how many Brandon in this you’re not going to have but three punt returns a game. You can’t fumble one away. You’re only going to have four red zone chips.
Stefan Krajisnik (35:29.621)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (35:38.813)
Again, you can’t miss a block to keep a drive alive on one of those. Right. Julian saying it plays into why anytime he gets asked about Bo Jackson, it’s ball security, taking care of the ball. Hey, Julian, don’t put the ball in harm’s way. I don’t know. The more he talks about that, the less it is for me. Oh, this is a problem. These guys have in practice. And it’s like, no, no, no. You remember the first time you bought something with your own money?
You know how much more and better you took care of it because it was your money?
That’s possessions. Possessions are money in college football. And two years ago, we decided to start making this the NFL where you don’t get a first down after every excuse me, the clock doesn’t stop after every first down unless you’re within two minutes and we have a two minute warning and everybody plays too high and just tries to eat up clock. So instead of 12 possessions per game, you get eight possessions per game. So because of that,
Mistakes on special teams matter more mistakes. Turnovers matter that much more. So I do not think Julian Sand has a turnover problem. had three weird interceptions. Bo Jackson had a weird fumble out the back of the end zone, but I don’t think they have a when I hear Ryan Day saying that now, it’s because look, dude. We’re going to get six possessions on Saturday.
You can’t afford to turn the ball over when you only get in six possessions. So that’s the execution part of it for me in terms of the office isn’t going to be, but so explosive right now. So we have to take care of the football.
Andrew Gillis (37:26.284)
And you know, the other part of this too, like you were saying, like in talent equated games, you know, what happens if you get another team, you know, and Ohio state says, right, where, know, situations matter more and blah, blah, blah. And this like, you know, keeps up with the team, like Michigan, with the team, like a Penn state, you know, one of the, you know, probably two of the most talented teams that they have left on their schedule. You know, if you get to that point, you know, both those teams are like, Hey, we’re cool with this game being six or seven possessions each, you know, like you said, and then, you know, you fumbled the ball.
I there’s a, there’s a reason why this has been a thing for hundreds of years. There’s a reason why John Heisman once said that it was better to have tied a small boy than fumble this football. Like it’s been a thing for a while that you turn the ball over, you lose games. And I think that’s why, you know, Ohio state is really just kind of honing in on this now. And I think like to a lesser extent, this is the edger conversation as well, where it’s like, Hey man, mistakes are going to kill us. They might not kill us now, but they’re going to kill us eventually, you know,
Stephen Means (38:19.418)
Yeah.
Andrew Gillis (38:23.788)
Think about where Ohio State would be if somebody fumbles against Texas. You’re in that position where it’s a close game. Texas is a yard away from tying it with three minutes left. What if they were a yard away from taking the lead or they were winning that game because somebody, there’s just all these different things you could go to. And that is why I think it’s the perfect time for Ryan Day to just kind of keep bashing this over the head.
Stephen Means (38:52.304)
So as a conclusion and all this Stefan that if Ohio State just plays clean nobody’s going to beat them on their schedule.
Stefan Krajisnik (39:00.79)
Probably, and Arville Reese and Caleb Downs are the thing for that.
Stephen Means (39:06.896)
Yeah, RML Reis is really good.
Stefan Krajisnik (39:12.864)
I saw him mocked recently at 21 overall. I imagine the Bears will pick before 21 overall. Don’t let him get the 21 overall.
Stephen Means (39:22.842)
I don’t know if I want to ban him to Chicago, though. Chicago is a lovely place. I just don’t want I don’t want his career to die.
Stefan Krajisnik (39:26.038)
You can hear. If you’re a no, no, no, if you’re a linebacker, you’re have a good time in Chicago.
Stephen Means (39:32.292)
No, that’s… Yeah, that’s not Not fair.
Andrew Gillis (39:32.43)
Yeah, what are you talking about? Lance Briggs, Brian Erlacher, they’ve got a whole 85-period, they’ve got a storied linebacker history.
Stephen Means (39:36.494)
No, that’s No, I mean, yeah, but…
Stefan Krajisnik (39:39.164)
He’s literally gonna win the Buccus Award.
Andrew Gillis (39:41.986)
Ha ha!
Stephen Means (39:44.26)
I think he genuinely is going to win the Buccas Award. No, who’s playing better linebacker than him right now?
Stefan Krajisnik (39:46.751)
He’s got a case.
Stephen Means (39:55.485)
I think he’s genuinely going to win the buckets. And there’s a lot of football to be played. But the mine Williams, he had to put in. Brian Day was even describing it. He had a run. Where are our research is like, you sure you want to do this? And the man’s like, not after that. Oh, I’m the I think our resources presence made the man Williams like double think before he wanted to run for a lot of that game.
Stefan Krajisnik (40:26.334)
I, yeah, you’re right.
Stephen Means (40:26.492)
I think he’s going to win the buckets. I genuinely think he’s going win the buckets award, which would be great for us.
Stefan Krajisnik (40:32.725)
If only someone could have predicted that.
Stephen Means (40:36.028)
Shut up. All right, anything else people want to bring up?
Stefan Krajisnik (40:44.374)
I think.
Andrew Gillis (40:44.682)
No, I mean, we- Go ahead, Sivana.
Stefan Krajisnik (40:46.902)
I think Ryan Day believes in Edric Houston still. We talked about his belief in Brandon Innis. I think Ryan Day believes in Edric Houston still. It’s kind of just becoming a tough love situation of Edric’s balancing a million things and he’s in a role for the first time and he’s a sophomore in college and it’s still a relatively new position. I think there’s a lot of things that Edric is balancing and it has not been a good season for him so far.
It sounds like Ryan Day and everyone around Edrick are still doing their part to, because I think they understand that he still has a massive role on this team and they need him to be good.
Stephen Means (41:26.268)
Gulus, anything else you want to bring up?
Andrew Gillis (41:31.872)
Ryan Day didn’t necessarily dismiss the idea of recruiting a fullback. He, he, yeah, I was going to say he threw me at a handful of caveats to that of.
Stefan Krajisnik (41:39.158)
But he also kind of did.
Stephen Means (41:45.073)
He literally said, no, we’re not bringing a fullback in here unless I think that’s a there’s a recruiting pod that’s coming up, Andrew. And I think we can use that as because I also love the way he talked about the running back situation of like a pre it’s like a pre he said he called it a prerequisite now. And I do think there is a a way to talk about Ohio State’s recruiting efforts in terms of what they are looking for in a football player.
Andrew Gillis (41:59.758)
you gotta basically play receiver two.
Stephen Means (42:14.604)
And he mentioned Xavier Johnson, who was a former walk on air, who played running back wide receiver. think he played DB at one point. Right. And you never walk on to go all over the place. But then he eventually got a scholarship here, was a block, a captain, and now he’s in the NFL. And I do think there is an I’m wondering who in Ohio State’s recruiting class right now, and we don’t have to talk about this in depth right now, but I wonder who is the best example of what you need from a football player, regardless of position. It’s like.
You can’t just do one thing now. You got to do 12 things. And is there a guy like that in Ohio State’s recruiting class right now or a guy that are even recruiting right now who fits that billing of I don’t know what you are, but you’re something and we’re going to use you.
Andrew Gillis (42:59.596)
Yeah. And it’s hard too, because it’s like, okay, well, you’re recruiting receiver as good as you are. And Kenan Bailey’s got the tight end room in such a way where it’s like, okay, like, let’s pretend you had just the most. Badass looking full back in the world. You’ve got a dude who’s got the neck roll. He’s got the great face mask. He runs. He looks, he just looks like.
Like, who’s the fullback for the charter? Lorenzo Neil was that his name or like, just, looks like that. He looks like a Mike Hall start. just looks like that. Okay. How much is he playing? And, and when you put him out on the field, is it worth it to have him on the field when you’ve got Wilcas Marek who’s just as good. And is that drop off and time effort spent, you know, is it better to just say, you know what? Hey, Nate Roberts, go do that because we think Nate Roberts is good. And like,
It is an interesting conversation. did think Landis was the one who asked the question. I did think it was an interesting question because like my ears certainly perked up when I heard the word fullback. you know, it just, I think it’s a fun conversation, but I don’t know what the realistic possibility is in that future.
Stephen Means (44:09.444)
Yep, but-
Stephen Means (44:17.786)
Yeah, but like it’s it’s the thing he used fullback to talk about. It’s unless you are. One of one doing one thing, you don’t get to come here and just do one thing. I.E. Jeremiah Smith is such a good wide receiver that if he wasn’t the best blocker when he got here. All right, man, put him on the field, he’ll figure it out. And I don’t think JJ was a good blocker in twenty twenty four.
So what? I think he’s a better blocker in 2025 because he’s having normal progression and development is that but he’s so great at this one thing that it doesn’t matter that there are other elements of his game that maybe lack you can fit. can figure that out in the game versus having to figure it out on special teams are in practice looking at Ohio State 2026 recruiting class right now. I think there is one dude. Who fits?
That boat build of you can just do this one thing and it’s fine. And that’s Chris Henry Jr. And that’s because he’s six foot six, 210 pounds. Right, even Bo Jackson, as elite as he might be as a running back, if he couldn’t be a receiver, if he couldn’t block and pass pro, they wouldn’t be putting them on the field. So that’s what I the fullback thing. Yeah, great. OK, yeah, we’re living in a world now where everybody’s playing 12 personnel again and 22 personnel. So it’s like, hey.
You’re go take this all the way back to 2002 and put a full back out there. Sure. But I think the answer Ryan Day gave to that into the running back thing were more about if we’re recruiting you. It’s not just to do one thing, even Sam Greer at six foot eight, three hundred and fifteen pounds. That doesn’t mean he’s not going to play guard here at some point. Paris Johnson was a no brainer first round draft pick and he played guard for a year. They’re starting left tackle came here thinking he was going to be a guard or a center.
So that for me, it’s more of that of like the makeup of the type of player you’re looking for. Yes. He’s super talented. Yes. We can project sincere Johnson to be a Mike linebacker, but our Valrice isn’t just a lot. Mike linebacker. We can project blame Bradford and say, he’s a free safety. Okay. They’re doing a bunch of stuff with Caleb downs and Lorenzo styles and Jalen McLean. So the versatility element to me is interested in when we break down this class of,
Stephen Means (46:44.858)
This guy is good at this, but how many different things can they do with him? Because the more they can do with you, the better chances you have of actually playing football for Ohio State. Kari Wilder might be an awesome pass rush guy, but if he sucks against the run, guess what? He’s not going to be doing when he gets to Ohio State playing football. And I think you can. I think Kari Wilder should be a five star, so that’s just me.
Stefan Krajisnik (47:05.014)
Yeah, I mean, if you want to know why Wilk has Marix playing so much and Max Clear isn’t playing as much as you want, it’s because Wilk has Marix a better receiver than Max Clear is a block.
Stephen Means (47:15.76)
Yes. Yes. Yes. That is yes. And you want to know why Brandon is still on the field of slot receiver, even though people were like, hey, honestly, my little Graham, hey, I want to see Bryson Rogers because Brandon is can do more. It’s not just about what you can do with the ball in your hands. Brandon is why I get the ball 50 times this year. Maybe he’s going play a lot more than 50 snaps this year. So that’s an interesting revelation from a recruiting standpoint.
from Ryan Day of how they’re looking at players and.
Stefan Krajisnik (47:46.614)
think about red square, gotta, you gotta be strategic with how you’re sharing that money now. Like we’re not talking about just giving out a bunch of scholarships and saying, Hey, devote one scholarship to a guy who’s just gonna play fullback for you. Like you have to figure out, if we recruit a guy who’s just gonna play fullback, we have to pay him. And how much do you pay a guy that can just play, play fullback as opposed to, what if we just paid Nate Roberts a bit more and he can play tight end for us and playful.
Stephen Means (47:50.918)
Right.
Stephen Means (48:02.076)
Right.
Stephen Means (48:11.18)
Mm hmm. Which is how you get back to unless you are one of one on what you do. I think it becomes that much more difficult to end up at Ohio State as a recruit because one of one.
Stefan Krajisnik (48:21.482)
mean, check, use checks a one-on-one example in San Francisco and he does everything for them. You think Shanahan would use a fullback just to use a fullback? Like he won’t get creative with use check.
Stephen Means (48:27.118)
He does everything, literally.
Stephen Means (48:31.952)
No!
Yeah, so unless your name is Chris Henry Jr. You need to know how to do a bunch of different things unless your name is JJ, you need to know how to do and then who else is this? know that Gabriel George guy who’s from Tennessee was like the Canadian running back. He’s probably a one of one situation, but those again, there’s one of those every recruiting class in Ohio State is not always going to get that guy. So everybody else has to have some versatility. And Ryan Day has been great on Tuesday. I wish we would talk to the coordinators and the quarterback to on Tuesday. But Ryan Day has been very informative.
Andrew Gillis (48:47.682)
David Gabriel Tordesco.
Stephen Means (49:03.812)
over last couple of weeks here. And the first place we go when he gets informative is the text 6 1 4 3 5 0 3 3 1 5. It’s a two week free trial 3 99. After that again today at noon, as you’re listening to this, we’re going live on YouTube again, we’re going to be talking Ohio, Ohio State’s quarterback position and looking around the conference and seeing who are the five best quarterbacks in the big 10 and also comparing the big 10 as a quarterback conference to some of the other conferences.