Copyright Bloomberg
Nobel Peace Prize winner María Corina Machado on life in hiding, the fight for democracy, and why US military strikes may be “the only way.” Share this article The awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to María Corina Machado of Venezuela comes at an extraordinary moment in her country’s relations with the United States. In recent weeks, the Trump administration has launched strikes against small vessels off the Venezuelan coast, ostensibly targeting the drug trade, and the president warned that “the land is going to be next.” As a US military buildup in the Caribbean continues, Trump has also authorized CIA action in Venezuela, which some see as a pretext for regime change. Against that backdrop came the announcement from Oslo honoring Machado, a longtime critic of President Nicolás Maduro who would have run against him last year had she not been barred. Her stand-in won the vote, according to an opposition-run parallel count widely deemed credible. Nevertheless, Maduro declared victory. Fifteen months on, Machado spoke to us from an undisclosed location in Venezuela. Her activism has come at a steep price — separation from family members now in exile — but Washington’s increasingly hawkish tone is giving her new hope. Listen to and follow The Mishal Husain Show on iHeart Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. The Mishal Husain Show: María Corina Machado (Podcast) This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. You can listen to an extended version in the latest episode of The Mishal Husain Show. Your Nobel Peace Prize has increased awareness around the world of the situation in Venezuela. Help me understand, first of all, how you live. Can you be seen in public? Well, I have to remind everyone that this is a recognition [of] a very long, painful struggle of a society that wants peace and freedom, a society that has been hurt badly [by] a regime that has separated our families and destroyed our country in every dimension. Last year, we had an incredible event. We won a presidential election by a landslide under extreme, unfair conditions. And after that happened, the Maduro regime unleashed the worst repression campaign in Venezuelan history. Thousands of people were detained, tortured, disappeared — even children. Our friends [and] colleagues are either in jail, in hiding, or have left the country. I was accused of terrorism by Nicolás Maduro, and I had to go into hiding. It’s almost 15 months in absolute isolation. And, of course, I am conscious that if they find me, at the least they would disappear me. That’s what they’ve said. 1 1 Machado has lived under extreme circumstances since Maduro declared victory in July 2024. That September, Edmundo González Urrutia — who was chosen to run against Maduro after Machado was banned from public office — went into exile in Spain. Machado was briefly detained in January and has remained out of sight ever since. She was upbeat throughout our video call, buoyed by the Peace Prize and the attention of the US administration. How does getting the Peace Prize impact that? Does it give you more protection because you have a higher international profile, or does it put you at more risk? It certainly gives us a higher protection: not only me, but also my colleagues that are fighting around the country. It creates more pressure on the regime, in terms of increasing the cost of repression. For years, [the regime] has felt that they can disappear, torture, kill, and the cost will be zero. But the time of impunity, it’s over. So this has had an impressive effect on the morale of the Venezuelan people. People are singing, cheering, celebrating and feeling. It brings us even further together. And yet, isn’t there a move in the last few days to strip you of your citizenship? They have done everything you can think about. I mean, this is not only unconstitutional, this is absurd. Frankly, I think it is a reflection of how desperate the regime is, how weak the regime is, and the kind of mistakes they’re making. Because this only furthers the consciousness of the world, that this is an urgent conflict that has to be solved. And the US certainly sees it that way, doesn’t it? We’ve seen the military buildup in the Caribbean, with the world’s biggest warship on its way there. I want to ask you about the strikes the US has carried out on boats in the Caribbean, described as strikes on drug cartels. What is your position on those deaths? Look, Mishal, for years we were asking the world to understand the degree of threat the Maduro regime was building in Venezuela. Venezuela has been turned into [a] safe haven for the activities of all criminal international networks — from drug cartels, to Colombian guerillas, to groups that smuggle gold and destroy communities of our indigenous people and the ecology, to networks that smuggle arms and even human trafficking and child prostitution. This is horrible — Russian agents, Iranian agents freely operating in Venezuela, Hezbollah and Hamas being located in our country. We asked for years, [for the] international community to cut the sources that come from drug trafficking and other criminal activities. Finally, this is happening. 2 2 Venezuela has long maintained strategic partnerships with Russia and Iran, and the Atlantic Council has described the country as “a safe space” for Hezbollah to conduct global crime-terror operations. China, Venezuela’s largest creditor and a major destination for its oil, is another key relationship for Maduro. So you think those killings are justified? Or are they, as UN experts would say, extrajudicial killings? This is about saving lives. Maduro is absolutely conscious and has been warned what not to do. These deaths are the responsibility of Nicolás Maduro. He, and the rest of the drug cartels in power in Venezuela, should stop these activities in order to prevent more deaths. And look, this is very important. We don’t want war. It was Maduro who started this war. 3 3 Since the boat strikes began, Caracas has tried to show it is also fighting narcotrafficking, with weekly broadcasts by the defense minister on the latest operations. Meanwhile, Venezuela cooperates with the US on other fronts: Planeloads of deported Venezuelan migrants are received every week and Houston-based Chevron Corp. is still pumping oil in cooperation with the state-owned producer. You are someone who stands for the rights of Venezuelans, for their democratic rights, for their human rights. What about the right to due process of the people on those boats? I certainly defend the rights of everyone, but you need to understand that this is a very cruel war. It was Maduro who turned this into an international conflict. Maduro is not a conventional dictator. We’re facing a narcoterrorist structure that has turned Venezuelan territory, Venezuelan resources, Venezuelan institutions into the activities of a criminal cartel. Get the Bloomberg Weekend newsletter. Big ideas and open questions in the fascinating places where finance, life and culture meet. Sign Up By continuing, I agree to the Privacy Policy and Terms of Service. This language you use — “narcoterrorism” — it is exactly the language the Trump administration uses about Venezuela. President Trump is saying, after the strikes on boats, “the land will be next.” Do you support US military strikes on the territory of Venezuela? I believe the escalation that’s taken place is the only way to force Maduro to understand that it’s time to go. 4 4 What’s happening off the coast of Venezuela represents the “largest level of US military capability in the region” since the invasion of Panama and the arrest of dictator Manuel Noriega in 1989, retired US Navy Admiral James Stavridis wrote for Bloomberg Opinion this week. “Donald Trump’s administration is clearly signaling that land strikes are imminent.” I believe that this escalation is the last opportunity for those that still support Maduro to understand that they need to take all support away from him — and Maduro himself to understand that this is the last chance to truly facilitate a peaceful and orderly transition, which is what we want, which is what we fought for. Mishal, I ask you to understand what we, the Venezuelan people, have done. We’ve [had] over 35 rigged elections. We finally demonstrated, we won, and then we were attacked. We’ve had thousands of protests, peaceful rallies, demonstrations. We’ve gone through every single institutional means. Which is exactly why it seems that a peaceful exit of Maduro is unlikely. Are you actually saying this regime can only be ended by US military force? Well, that will depend on what the regime does in the days to come. I think it was absolutely indispensable to have a credible threat. I think it was absolutely required to cut the sources of illegal activities because those resources don’t go to schools or hospitals, they are used for repression, for persecution and corruption. Who are you in touch with in the administration? Who are you having conversations with most these days? I will not get into those details, Mishal, for obvious reasons. I have to insist that I’ve been in contact not only with several officials in the US government, but also in Canada, in Latin America, the Caribbean and Europe. The US secretary of state feels the most strongly about Venezuela. Oh, I certainly believe Secretary of State Marco Rubio is one of the people in the administration that better understands the threats that are posed to Latin America and from our region towards [the] United States. 5 5 The former Florida senator is of Cuban descent and steeped in the region’s politics. His hardline stance on Venezuela appears to have won out, with Trump telling his special envoy Richard Grenell to cease diplomatic engagement with Maduro. And are you in regular touch with him? I have been in touch with him, of course, and with his team and even further, in Congress. [In] both parties, we have really good friends and champions of our cause. This goes beyond ideological issues. It is certainly a matter of national security of the United States, and hemispheric security. But it also brings the biggest opportunity for democracy, stability and peace in our region. 6 6 This idea of “hemispheric security” has deep roots. In the 19th century, the US sought to block European claims on the Americas under a policy known as the “Monroe Doctrine,” only to learn during the world wars how events further afield could still shape the region. Machado’s language — not for the first time in our conversation — seems calibrated to echo Trump administration priorities: A forthcoming National Defense Strategy is expected to emphasize the US homeland and Western Hemisphere. A transition to democracy in Venezuela will mean that we will stop the suffering of millions of my fellow countrymen that are dying as we speak. Poverty in Venezuela today is 86%, pensions in Venezuela are less than a dollar a month, children go only twice a week to public schools. I mean, this is a whole generation that is growing with hunger, without education, and without their parents because they have been forced to leave. We will bring opportunities. We will bring peace and freedom and respect and solidarity. But at the same time, Mishal, we will turn this criminal hub in the heart of the Americas — because Venezuela’s location is absolutely unparalleled — into a security shield and a great ally of Western democracies. These are very big goals. In your conversations with the US administration, have they told you to be ready to become the leader of Venezuela? Oh, absolutely not. The leader of Venezuela was chosen by our people a year ago. We have a president. 7 7 The Biden administration recognized Edmundo González Urrutia as Venezuela’s “president-elect” after the 2024 election. Still, he was widely regarded as a placeholder for Machado, and himself referred to her as “the opposition leader.” Who stood in for you. Do you get the feeling the US is going to bring about regime change? Is that what you have been told? No, I’ve not been told that — and it’s not regime change in the conventional way that we’ve seen before, in terms of an external actor taking out a legitimate president. First, because Maduro is not the legitimate president. He’s the head of Cartel of the Suns, the head of a narcoterrorist structure. 8 8 The US currently offers a $50 million reward for information leading to Maduro’s arrest or conviction. In 2020, he was indicted by a New York court for narcoterrorism and conspiracy to import cocaine, among other charges. The Trump administration has also identified Maduro as the head of a group called Cartel de los Soles, which it sanctioned in July. Earlier this month, Colombia’s president, was sanctioned for allegedly enabling drug trafficking, and accused by the US of allying with Maduro. Secondly, because regime change was mandated and proved a year ago, on July 28, 2024. We went into presidential elections — in which I was banned from participating after I won the primaries by [a] landslide — and Edmundo González Urrutia received 70% of the votes. We were able to prove it. Twenty-four hours later, we had the original tally sheets published on a super robust webpage, scrutinized and analyzed by the whole world. So the legitimate president-elect of Venezuela is Edmundo González Urrutia. This is not regime change, this is enforcing the will of the Venezuelan people. But you did all of that, and then nothing changed. Maduro declared victory anyway. What if, again, you are left with no change? Perhaps the administration reverts to its previous approach, more into deals over oil, or President Trump loses interest in Venezuela. From every perspective you look at this, it is convenient for everyone to have a peaceful transition. One of the main concerns in the region is migration. Almost 9 million, a third of our population, have been forced to flee for survival. The minute Maduro goes, millions will start coming back home. Secondly, from the energy security, and business perspective, Venezuela is in last place in terms of rule of law globally. Last place. Who is going to invest under these circumstances? You would have to partner with a criminal cartel — one that has confiscated and robbed private local and international companies. We have in Venezuela the largest proven oil reserves in the world, the eighth [largest] reservoir of natural gas, huge potential in electricity, gold, critical minerals, and so on. This can only be unleashed with a government that brings order to this chaos. That open[s] markets, that brings rule of law, that is friendly to international investment. And then a country that is producing less than 1 million barrels a day, could reach four, five, or six in a decade. 9 9 It’s telling that Machado again pivots to two of President Trump’s favorite subjects — migration and natural resources — and frames Maduro’s downfall as a win for the US. I know your economic prescription for Venezuela would be one of rapid privatization. But I look at the proportion of the country living in poverty, people burning furniture so that they can cook their meals, and wonder about those who might be left behind in such a program. How would you ensure that that doesn’t happen? 10 10 I was thinking about the “shock therapy” imposed on Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. President Boris Yeltsin, advised by American economists, privatized state assets and eliminated price controls. The result was economic contraction, hyperinflation and soaring inequality, as wealth became concentrated in the hands of oligarchs. That’s a super important point, Mishal, because the base of our movement has been precisely the most humble and vulnerable sectors of society. I was told when we started that it was impossible to bring back together a country that had been divided by the Chavista regime, in so many dimensions — rich and poor, Black and White, urban [and] rural. You know what? The single strongest force and desire that [brought] us together was we want our children back home. Those that have left, we want them back home. You need to attract those people. Yes. But what we have learned is [the] system that Maduro and [Hugo] Chávez [put] in place, Chavismo socialism, they do want people to be equal: equally poor, equally dependent on the regime. They need people to be uneducated, to live in sadness because families are separated. In order to compete, and to have opportunities for all, we need to invest in education, health [and] social opportunities. We need huge investments that will create employment in our country. And I tell you, I won my primary with 93%, and I was promoting these ideas: to defend private property, to give opportunity to all. But somebody like President Javier Milei in Argentina, who you have political and ideological commonalities with — what he’s doing involves the free market, but it also involves a lot of austerity. After suffering for so many years, Venezuelans wouldn’t be signed up to austerity, would they? No. We have called our economy program “stabilization and expansion.” Which means, first of all, we need order. Currently nobody knows the level of Venezuelan reserves. What is our debt? How much do we export? What is our budget? It’s a black box. Certainly in the first moments of this transition, we will need to invest heavily, and take care of the most vulnerable sectors of our population. We have designed emergency plans to have direct transfers to these sectors that are in a critical situation, while the economy moves ahead. If you get the chance. And it is still— We will, we will. I’m still not sure what gives you so much confidence. Let me tell you something. All my life — but mostly in the last three years — I’ve been told that everything we were doing was impossible, that we should simply give up and accept that Venezuela had been destroyed for good. That it was impossible to get a country back together, with hope. Impossible to carry out a primary process without the regime stopping it. Impossible to defeat Maduro, and prove it. Impossible to resist these 15 months of the worst repression we’ve seen ever. And our people have demonstrated such huge resilience. But you have not overthrown him. No, not yet. What are you planning to do next, call people out on the streets? We have been organizing, these past months — underground, taking care of each other, finding ways to communicate safely. It’s a totally decentralized structure. I’m talking about hundreds of thousands of people in communication, in real time, in order to ensure a peaceful transition. 11 11 This is the first hint during the conversation of what Machado is actually doing. While the Nobel committee cited her role in uniting the opposition ahead of last year’s election, it is once again divided. Her faction continues to focus on disputing the results and boycotting future elections, while others argue that participation is vital to maintain a foothold in government. I’ve heard so many concerns, and always, they miss the most important force here, which is the people. This is the most cohesive society in the world. And yes, people will come out when the correct moment arrives, and that’s being built as we speak. We are ready to take over government. We have the teams, we have the plans — the first 100 hours, the first 100 days. And certainly, we now need the international community aligned with the United States to apply law enforcement. We have been asking Latin American [and] European governments to have full disclosure of all the information that they have, and we know they have, regarding the criminal activities of Maduro and his cronies. Much of Maduro’s criminal resources end up in their financial systems. So it is time for these countries to move ahead. Do you think that Maduro will end up in a US court? He’s been indicted for some years now. When you spoke to President Trump, did you ask him to extract Maduro? No, I’m not going to get into the details of the operations because I’ve never discussed that with officials. That’s an operation of the United States — a totally autonomous, independent operation of another country regarding their national security. Regarding Maduro’s future, that depends on him. We offered the regime the possibility of a negotiated transition, guarantees and incentives. They have refused that and instead they have attacked us. So Maduro, as I said, has very [little] time left to make the decision of where he will go next. Do you think part of President Trump’s interest in Venezuela is because of the 2020 US election, which he wrongly believes was stolen from him? His backers have alleged that “rigged” voting machines had ties to Maduro’s circle. Well, I have no doubt that Maduro, [President of the Venezuelan National Assembly] Jorge Rodríguez, and many others are the masterminds of a system that has rigged elections in many countries, including the US. They are totally involved in wrongdoing in many countries. I have no idea if that has any influence in President Trump’s decision. I want to ask how you cope with the lows, because you do speak with energy and conviction despite 15 months in hiding. You face isolation. Your family is out of the country. What keeps you going? I would say trust. I have always trusted the conviction and commitment and love that Venezuelan people have demonstrated. This long journey has turned me into another person. I’ve learned so much about my country, about myself. 12 12 I would love to have had more of an answer on the impact of the sacrifices I mentioned, but I also understand why Machado side-stepped. Washington’s stance makes this a moment of immense possibility, and she wants to keep people engaged in Venezuela’s story. From what she said before we began recording, I know she prefers to keep her family out of it. She is understood to have children living in exile and perhaps it is also too painful to touch on what that separation has meant. Do you want to be president yourself? Well, of course I’ve said that, I’ve run for that, but that’s not my obsession right now, believe me. [Laughs] I have one goal. We will liberate our country, and we will make our children — and I feel I have millions of children — absolutely proud to be Venezuelan. Even as I hear you speak, I’m conscious that it’s 27 years since Hugo Chávez was first elected. He was succeeded by Maduro. There have been many times when people thought, This is the end for the regime, and it hasn’t happened. Yes. Where do you think you’ll be in a year’s time? I will be working very hard on building a country that is going to be the brightest nation in the world, and a proud nation. I know what you mean — this has been very long. We have had opportunities in the past, we have committed mistakes, we have underestimated the regime, certain sectors betrayed us in the past — but this is a totally different situation. I believe, finally, our main allies internationally understand the urgency for a transition to take place. Secondly, we have legitimacy — we won an election. We have the will of the people behind us. Third, the regime is weaker than ever. The fractures, factions, treasons within the regime are growing as we speak. And finally — I think the most important thing — we, the Venezuelan people, have already decided to be free. And this includes the military, the police — more than 80% of them are joining, and will be part of this orderly transition as soon as it starts. I look forward to hosting you in a free Venezuela very soon, Mishal. Mishal Husain is Editor at Large for Bloomberg Weekend.
