Former Sen. Mitt Romney had a message his blue state audience didn’t seem to like much: President Donald Trump isn’t the first president to use the power of government against his political foes.
Speaking with CNN news anchor Dana Bash in front of an upscale crowd in Morristown, New Jersey, at an event sponsored by Drew University, Romney was both inspirational and political.
The longtime critic of Trump found some in his blue-state audience were uncomfortable with anything less than a full rebuke of the president.
After serving as a Republican governor in Massachusetts, then running twice for president — earning the Republican nomination the second time, in 2012 — Romney served six years representing Utah in the Senate.
But while Romney twice warned his political party against nominating Trump, he has often said he agrees with some of Trump’s policies, even as he has criticized Trump over issues of character.
This was on display Monday night, as Romney spoke about both parties use of lawfare. He also expressed deep concern over the growing political polarization in the United States, as well as the recent violence at a Michigan church and the political assassination of Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University.
Romney called for people of all political stripes to calm their rhetoric.
“You don’t carry around matches when there’s a lot of gasoline around you,” he said. “And there’s a lot of gasoline in the atmosphere in America right now, and we just need to have fewer people carrying matches.”
Bash asked him, what are the matches? Romney pointed to social media. He earlier said he agreed with Utah Gov. Spencer Cox, who blamed social media at least in part for the rise in political violence.
Romney also voiced a strong defense of the right to free speech under the First Amendment, and the need for people to listen to those who disagree with them politically.
“People were allowed to say whatever the heck they wanted to say, and we would respect your right to do it,” he said. “We would fight for your right to do it, even if we vehemently disagreed with what you’re saying.”
Romney says Ted Cruz got it right on Jimmy Kimmel
Given his focus on free speech, Bash asked Romney what he thought of Jimmy Kimmel being taken off the air after he was criticized by the head of the Federal Communications Commission, Brendan Carr.
Romney said, “I agree with Ted Cruz.” The Texas Republican senator spoke up in defense of Kimmel after he was taken off the air, saying he thought what Carr said was “dangerous.”
“There will be a Democrat president someday — I don’t think for a long time, by the way, but there will be a Democrat president. When he or she becomes president, they may well decide to exercise that same power in the opposite direction,” Romney told Bash.
Who’s to blame for ‘lawfare’?
Bash asked Romney what he thought of the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey, who was charged with one count each of making a false statement and obstruction of justice.
Romney spoke about the “anger” that must have swelled up in Trump when charges were pursued against him in New York, Georgia and at the federal level.
He pointed to a recent piece by New York Times columnist David Brooks, who said political leaders across the spectrum were motivating their supporters by appealing to their “dark passions.”
“There is one force above all others that arouses dark passions, and we possess it in abundance: humiliation,” Brooks wrote.
“And I think President Trump, when he was not in office, was humiliated by these actions,” Romney said, ”where he sat at the New York courtroom at the defendant table, being chastised by a judge and being attacked by a prosecutor who in his campaign had said he was going to bring Donald Trump an indictment and put him on trial.”
He added, “And the idea that the system of justice is used to punish political opponents is a very dangerous path to go down.”
“But President Biden (Joe) did this. … I mean — I haven’t said this publicly — but … during the Biden administration, there was a special prosecutor going after President Trump, and I called a member of the White House, one of the senior advisers of President Biden, and I said, ‘if the Justice Department decides to indict President Trump, I hope President Biden will immediately, immediately eliminate that and make sure that doesn’t occur, that he will provide a pardon immediately.’
“Why? I don’t want the anger and the hate and vitriol, and, No. 2, it’s not going to go anywhere. It’s just, we just can’t begin to be prosecuting political opponents.”
Romney said he wanted the White House to pardon Trump the “same day” if the Biden administration indicted him.
Bash pushed back, saying Trump “is a bit different” than Biden on the number of people he’s threatened to go after, reading a long list of names of Democrats and former administration officials who Trump has said should be charged with a crime.
Romney, who was also criticized by Trump, said he understood the difference Bash was trying to point out. He said, speaking again of lawfare, “I just don’t think that’s the right path to go down. I’d go down a different path.”
He also pointed out that most voters are not interested in watching the two major parties exact revenge on one another.
Voters want lawmakers to focus on inflation, and they were also concerned about illegal immigration ahead of the 2024 election, he said.
“And Donald Trump has stopped the illegal immigration, and people are very happy that he did that,” Romney said. “They don’t feel progress on inflation, debt, and they’re concerned about that.”
Bash, determined to keep the focus on Trump, asked Romney about some of his other recent actions, including sending troops to Portland, firing a Federal Reserve board member, and new rules for journalists at the Pentagon.
“And these are just some examples of things going on,” she said. “If this were happening in another democracy, what would you call it?”
“I would call it an effort by the executive branch to assert more power and get more control,” Romney replied.
He spoke about how Biden tried to expand executive power when he was president, and said Trump is doing the same thing.
“The president is exerting power, and that is something which he has done throughout his career, and says he will do, and he’s doing what he said he will do,” said Romney. “He said he was going to have revenge and retribution, and he is, and he’s trying to have a stronger executive branch because he and the people around him believe that the executive branch is too weak and that it needs to have more power. And he is extending the boundary of executive power.”
Romney started losing his blue-state audience at this point — they did not seem happy to hear Biden’s actions in office compared to Trump’s actions.
He tried to reel them back in with a story about a time when he spoke to another senator at a prayer breakfast, and the senator listed seven reasons a lawmaker votes the way they do. The first few reasons were about getting reelected or helping their party get or maintain power. The seventh reason, in last place, Romney said, was “what’s best for the country.”
He pointed out the most important elections, in a country where red and blue states are becoming redder or bluer, are primary elections. Challenges to Republican or Democratic lawmakers are coming from their right or left flanks, pushing the country deeper into polarization, he said.
After Romney said Trump clearly was pushing the line further than presidents before him, Bash asked whether what Trump is doing is constitutional.
“In some cases yes, in some cases no,” Romney said. “We’ll see what the Supreme Court says.”
The audience didn’t like that answer either, seemingly a response to Romney’s suggestion the Supreme Court would check the president’s power when appropriate.
What’s the incentive for anyone to run for office in this environment, Bash wanted to know.
Romney said he “enormously” admires people on both sides of the political aisle, including New Jersey Democratic Sen. Cory Booker, which earned him a round of applause. He did follow up by affectionately calling Booker both “a liberal nut,” and someone who stands on principle.
He also praised Cox, although Bash pointed out Cox said the thought of running for president makes him “nauseous.”
“Look, we have to have people of character willing to take on positions of leadership,” Romney said, arguing that the American people are ready for someone who will stand for America and stand on principles.
Romney weighs in on Trump’s tariff and immigration policies
Romney said he thinks tariffs are contributing to inflation, but he also pointed out some of the benefits of tariffs, including how they’ve raised revenue, how they provide a buffer against Chinese monopolies, and how they’re encouraging some manufacturing growth in the U.S.
Still, he said, their effects on prices hit middle- and low-income Americans the hardest.
Now that he’s semi-retired, Romney said he’s cooking dinner one or two nights a week for him and his wife Ann. And he said he’s shocked at the prices in the grocery store.
Romney again drew jeers when he said Trump had solved illegal immigration. Bash asked him to clarify whether he supported raids by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, and Romney said he didn’t like to see ICE “turned into a police force.”
Message from Rahm Emanuel to Romney: You were right
Bash asked Romney if he remembered President Barack Obama making fun of him for his answer on who was the United States’ biggest geopolitical foe. During a 2012 presidential debate, Romney said it was Russia.
On Monday, Romney groaned a bit, recalling how Obama enjoyed mocking him on the campaign trail by saying “the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back… .”
Well, Bash said, “I have a message for you from Rahm Emanuel, who was Barack Obama’s chief of staff. He said, ‘You deserve all of us Obama disciples to tell you we were wrong and you were right, and I’m sorry for dismissing your smart insights.’”
Romney said he appreciated the apology.
He also used the opportunity to talk about Trump’s foreign policy, and how things have changed in the world given the alignment between China and Russia, and America’s pivot away from trying to build soft power.
“President Trump has a different orientation, which is exercise power. Exercise power to get a better deal for America,” Romney said. “That’s a very different approach. In the past, we’ve tried to build power by making friends around the world and bringing people here, legal immigrants on H-1B visas and so forth. We’re building power.
“He’s saying, we’ve been building power too long. We want to exercise it.”
Romney said that isn’t what he would do, criticizing Trump for going after “Canada of all places,” and Denmark in the early weeks of his second term in office.
Romney on JD Vance and why Democrats lost working class voters
When asked if he still thinks Vice President JD Vance is likely the next Republican presidential candidate, Romney said he stands by his earlier prediction.
And, he added, he thinks Vance is likely to win — which again drew the audience’s ire.
He pointed out Vance is well-positioned to gain the support of the GOP’s working class voters, many of whom who used to be Democrats.
“JD has connected with those voters in a dramatic way, and, in my opinion, a credible way,” Romney said. “He comes from rural Kentucky. He came from that background, if you read his book, and he’s very smart. He’s a brilliant speaker.”
The Democrats lost working class voters, Romney said for three reasons: open borders, allowing transgender athletes to compete in women’s sports, and using the slogan “defund the police.”
5 people Romney admires
Before his interview with Bash, Romney spoke about trying to live his life in accordance with principles, and spoke about five people he admires who embodies those principles.
The first was Jim Liautaud, who founded the sandwich shop Jimmy John’s. Romney said he met Liautaud during his 2012 run for president, and admires how he lives his life with enthusiasm.
The second was Tom Monghan, the founder of Domino’s Pizza. Romney met Monaghan when he was handing him a billion-dollar check on behalf of Bain Capital for the purchase of Domino’s. Romney said he watched Monghan turn around and sign the check over to Catholic Charities.
The third was someone he met while running the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics, American bobsledder Vonetta Flowers. Calling her an example of loyalty, Romney described how Flowers refused to abandon her partner when asked to join the world champion’s team. Flowers and her partner went on to win gold medals.
Ann Romney, Mitt’s wife of 56 years, was his fourth selection. Ann, who has battled multiple sclerosis for many years, helped found the Ann Romney Center for Neurologic Diseases at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. She and her husband have 5 sons, 25 grandchildren and two great-grandchildren. Mitt said he is inspired by the kindness Ann shows to those around her. He said he asked her once why she spent an hour on the phone with someone she barely knew, and she said, “I want to leave flowers in my wake.”
The fifth person Romney spoke about was Bill Marriott, chairman emeritus of Marriott International. Romney said he visited hotels with Marriott and watched him talk to each employee — from those in management, to those in the kitchens, to those in the giant laundry rooms.
“And as he would speak with them,” Romney said, “he would look at them carefully and say, ‘How long have you been with the company? Do you live nearby? Do you have children? Do they want to become part of this company someday?’ He had extraordinary interest in these individuals. He cared about the people in that hotel.”
Romney had a funny anecdote about Marriott as well — recalling a time when they were driving through a toll booth on a turnpike in Massachusetts, and Romney had no cash on hand and asked Marriott for the 35 cents. Marriott fished the change out of his pocket and handed it over, but before they could drive away he asked if he could have a receipt. “And if you’ll note that the Marriott company, they’re very careful with every dollar they spend.”
Romney encouraged the audience to build lives based on good principles and to become leaders. “You can get power all sorts of ways,” he said, “but leaders, true leaders, have the ability to change other people’s lives for the good by virtue of having the kinds of qualities I’ve described.”