COLUMBUS, Ohio — Welcome to the “Leave No Doubt” pod, an in-season Monday episode of Buckeye Talk where Stephen Means and Stefan Krajisnik constantly ask a simple weekly question:
Did Ohio State leave no doubt on Saturday?
This week, we break down an offense that showed that even in a 24-6 win over Washington, OSU is still trying to figure out its identity.
Instead of seeing how the Buckeyes left no doubt, we decide whether a few teams on their schedule achieved that mission or not. And what it means as we evaluate what’s next.
Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk and sign up to get text messages from experts Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis at 614-350-3315. Get the insider analysis, have your voice heard on the Buckeye Talk podcast and connect with the best Buckeye community out there.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Stephen Means (00:03.95)
Welcome back to What I Talk. I’m Stephen Means and that’s Stefan Krasnik and this is your Monday Leave No Doubt pod. This is the pod where every Monday we come on and we try to answer the question, did Ohio State leave no doubt in its insert team game? And this week it’s 24 to six against Washington, which snaps Washington’s 22 game home win streak.
Ohio State has now won 20 straight games against unranked teams on the road. So that streak lives on to see another day while one streak dies in this game. We talked a lot about the defense on the post game pod. We decided to be completely positive there. I’m not saying that we’re going to be negative on this pod. It’s just, this is the side of the ball that has more question marks at this point in the season. And I told Stefan before we get on here, like we texted each other like an hour and a half before we started this pod. And Stefan was like, I’m scared. going to be nice. And I said, me too.
And then I got through the rest of the game. It’s like, no, I’m not going to be nice. I’m not going to be mean, but I guess that’s I’ll start here because I didn’t necessarily send you a structure before this. I think we’re just going to rock with it see where it takes us over the next 45 minutes to an hour. Are you?
Stephen Means (01:12.0)
More, less, or the same in terms of where you think your confusion and frustration about what we saw Saturday afternoon, where does that lie now that you’ve had a chance to sit with it and re-watch this game?
Stefan Krajisnik (01:27.114)
Probably I think I’m probably less confused because where I had questions I can see what Ohio State was thinking right like when we watching it a lot of those plays I’m telling myself okay I get what they were trying to do there I see the vision of what they were trying to do there where this idea was coming from But I’m not sure why it felt like early on the offense was letting
Stephen Means (01:36.526)
Mm-hmm.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:54.154)
They’re letting Washington dictate what Ohio State should do offensively. And that’s kind of head scratching to me because like Washington was depleted in the secondary and they had injuries. So obviously they were going to play in a way where you, they wanted you to run the ball and you played into that. And I, and I understood it from the sense of
Stephen Means (01:59.639)
Yes.
Stefan Krajisnik (02:19.775)
You know, there were run plays where I’m like, you I’m watching that first drive that ends on the fourth and one. I’m like, you know what, like, they’re kind of running all over them, right? Like they’re having success running the ball, they’re moving the ball. But that’s, that’s what Washington wanted you to do. Washington was fine with you get into a fourth and one and having to convert. Washington was fine with you, you know, getting a few plays and getting a few first downs and then having to, you know, put it away or whatever it may be. you were
I get where you were coming from, but it felt like you were playing into what Washington wanted you to do. And that’s where it left me kind of scratching my head a bit of, I get it, but you’re, you’re, you’re Ohio State. Like you do you, because you’re way better than the other team.
Stephen Means (03:02.338)
Do you think they ran the ball too much?
Stephen Means (03:07.03)
in the first half.
Stefan Krajisnik (03:07.647)
yeah, I think so, but not in the sense of your rushing attack wasn’t successful. You went deep into the first half with Julian saying having no rhythm. And when you started asking him to pass it, plays weren’t working because he had no rhythm.
Stephen Means (03:27.192)
They got into this run it on first down, run it on second down, and now it started long, now Julian Sands supposed to sit back there and pick a defense part.
I get it. On the road, rough environment. If you establish the run, you can take the crowd out of the game. But I guess my rebuttal has always been, how you can also take the crowd out of the game? Touchdowns. Scoring touchdowns. Winning football games helps you take the crowd out of the game. I say that while the running, I don’t.
They ran it 15 times and they threw it 10 times in the first half. We also have to remember that they missed an entire draw. They only had the ball for 11 minutes in the first half because Brandon had his fumble to punt. And so it gave Washington, essentially Washington stole the possession but did absolutely nothing with it. Shame on you, Shame on you. did, Ohio State kind of offered you this game on a silver platter in the first half and you said, no, I don’t want it. Multiple times.
Stephen Means (04:34.669)
I feel like they’re asking the wrong people to execute things. I think that’s my problem is where they’re asking people to execute because we didn’t see Ethan and Yawa at all in the same. Taggers Chipola played all 64 snaps. That’s the first time we’ve seen that this year. I just don’t think he was good. And it’s not just the penalties. He there’s missed assignments. A lot of the times on blocks where I think it’s a touchdown run. If he just
doesn’t even block the guy. just stands in the guy way long enough that the running back gets through the hole. And then it’s probably a touchdown. Nate Roberts, that’s execution on that fourth and short situation, right? I think he missed the block.
But then also there have been multiple times this year and CJ Donaldson was talking about it after the game, how he’s got to get his pads lower. He runs too high and he’s supposed to be the power back, but there have been multiple times now this year where we’ve seen him get met in the hole by a defender and the defender one. And that’s where CJ Donaldson is supposed to win, also Nate Roberts missed a block. So, okay. Those are two instances of you’re asking. If we rank the top, the 11 starters, Tegra Shabola is 11 and you’re running a play where you’re 11th best player.
the worst player of your starter has to be excellent. And he wasn’t excellent. You’re running a play where you’re asking a true freshman at a developmental position. I know Nate Roberts is good, but he’s still 18 years old playing tight end and you’re having him play a specialized fullback role where his entire job is to go bully somebody in the hole. And it’s going to be hit or miss, right? It was a hit against Texas. It was a miss against Washington. okay. And then CJ Donaldson, fine back.
but he’s not your best running back. Right now you are literally using him as your power back because it’s a high leverage situation and you probably don’t trust Bo Jackson in that situation yet because you don’t want him to fumble the football. But also you’re just trying to rotate these backs, right? Bo Jackson got 17 carries, CJ Donaldson got nine carries, James Peeples got three carries. I think Bo Jackson is RB one and who shares the load with him is going to alternate depending on who they’re playing. So they’re going to be games where Bo Jackson has 15 carries in.
Stefan Krajisnik (06:31.923)
Yeah, I think you’re right on that.
Stephen Means (06:35.789)
Yeah. And then like CJ Donaldson has nine or 10 and then James peoples has three, but then there’s going to be games where Bo Johnson has 15 and then James peoples has 10 and CJ Donaldson has, I just think it’s how the game, the game will flow for that second running back in every single game. This is a long winded answer. do apologize, but there were just a lot of examples of them relying on people who aren’t their best players. And if that translates to throw the football,
then that’s what it translates to. But I understand they double JJ a lot, like a lot more than I think I realized in real time. That’s not an excuse for Jeremiah Smith to not be getting the ball into your final drive. That’s not an excuse for carnell tate to not have a target until the middle of the second quarter. They’re not their realities, but they’re not excuses to your point. This whole take what the defense gives you. Yes.
You’re also Ohio State and you are allowing Washington to take your two best players out of the football game.
Stefan Krajisnik (07:39.264)
I think when you know the JJ double teaming thing, I agree with you because I’m you know, I’m watching a replay and I’m thinking to myself like, yeah, I mean, there really are like overloading the side where the JJ is but like, they’re taking away, you know, a deep shot to Jeremiah Smith. The touchdown he scored, I think the pass was technically behind the line of scrimmage. Right? Like the outroutes that that you were you know,
Stephen Means (07:55.927)
Right.
Stephen Means (08:00.949)
No, it was a shallow, it was a shallow cross and they just cleared everybody out.
Stefan Krajisnik (08:08.103)
Right. And then, you know, you got you got some completions and you got some momentum, you know, when you were doing those outrouts and getting the ball to him quick. So it’s like, sure, they’re double teaming him, but they’re not, you know, the ball’s still there. Right? Yeah, they’re double teaming him, you know, 30 yards on the field, like there’s opportunities closer to the line of scrimmage to get him the ball. And on a day where, you know, you’re establishing no, I guess, rhythm in the passing game, the few times you went to him, it looked like, all right, you’re moving, here you go. And then you went away from it. And yeah, not to mention, carnell tate.
But even like Max Clarem, Brandon Innis, you didn’t really get them involved until the second half in the passing attack. And we saw, you know, Brandon Innis made some plays for this passing attack in the second half, right? Getting in the ball on, I think it was a screen. And then I can’t remember what the second completion to him was shortly after that. But like you had opportunities to really kind of build off of some momentum in the passing game. You kept going away from it. And it was really, really head scratching there in the first half.
Stephen Means (09:07.799)
So who do we blame as an oversimplification for this?
Is this a, we don’t trust Julian Sand? Is this a, Brian Hartline’s a new play caller and he’s trying to figure it out every week? Or do you feel like this is Ryan Day and his directive for what he wants his offense to be?
Cause I can’t tell by the way they answered questions afterward, because I, I feel like after the game, we didn’t get called on. lot of the questions were presented in a way of, your defense is so awesome. You don’t have to do anything on offense. And I don’t, while that is true, I don’t think that is a place Ohio state can live in. I do think posing that question where it’s like your defense is good, but you also have to do things on offense.
would have been a better way to do so. I don’t know if you had to go one, two, three of why this is happening between they don’t trust Julian Sand. Ryan Hartline’s new to this. Ryan Day. This is what Ryan Day wants. So it doesn’t matter what Julian Sand and Brian Hartline want to do. The head coach who’s an officer, my head coach wants you to do this. So you’re going to do this. Like, I guess what would your order be?
Stefan Krajisnik (10:22.089)
probably Ryan Day, number one, Heartline number two. I think they trust Julian. It’s hard to figure out early in these games. think they almost, like they trust Julian, but they wanna like.
Stephen Means (10:25.293)
Mm.
Stefan Krajisnik (10:38.463)
I don’t know, like wrap their arms around and be like, we’re gonna help you as much as we can. It’s like, sometimes you just got to throw them into the deep end and see, see what happens, right? Is he gonna swim or is he gonna drown and, and everything he’s shown you shows that he’s gonna swim, right? Like they’re reviewing that fourth downplay or sorry, the third downplay that that was originally called the first down and they took it back and set up that fourth and one like he’s on the sideline, like smiling or like the environment was not getting to him. He was, he was fine. You don’t have to, you know, hold his hand through everything and kind of
Stephen Means (10:57.601)
Hmm.
Stephen Means (11:02.636)
No.
Stefan Krajisnik (11:06.751)
I think back to the way, you know, Ryan Day talked about the Texas game and saying like, you know, this is the vision he had of how this game was going to go. And he was kind of talking about Washington in that way, leading up to the game of just like, you know, four quarter game. It’s going to be a battle, like a lot of respect for Washington. Like he was almost telling us like, this is how we’re going to approach this game because we think it’s going to be a close game. And the Washington game unfolded to be like, Hey man, if you, if you throw some punches, this doesn’t have to be a close game. Like you’re, you’re, you’re treating it.
like a four quarter matchup game where you just don’t want to make it.
Stephen Means (11:35.521)
Are you saying they’re hella-
Stefan Krajisnik (11:40.574)
Go ahead.
Stephen Means (11:43.435)
No, go ahead and finish. Go ahead and finish. You were going to make a real point. I was going to mess around.
Stefan Krajisnik (11:48.544)
Yeah, we’re dealing we’re dealing with Marriott a lot Wi-Fi right now right now, which is it probably isn’t the best for bag of boys conversation But it’s like Like your Ohio State like it doesn’t have to be a close game like you’re you’re afraid of making mistakes because you think it’s gonna be a close game But if you throw some punches, it’s not gonna be one. So what’s it matter, right? Like you’re playing conservative. Well, guess what? got you a turnover on downs
Stephen Means (11:49.41)
you
Stephen Means (11:53.067)
Yeah, it’s not great.
Stephen Means (12:09.996)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (12:14.893)
He definitely speaks close games into existence during the week. And it’s like, or, or just bear with me for a second, Ryan. Washington hasn’t played anybody and now they have to play you.
Are you saying that Ryan Day and Brian Hartland are helicopter parenting, Julian Sam, and they need to let their kid go to college and be a man? Is that what you’re saying?
Stefan Krajisnik (12:41.919)
It feels that way sometimes, at least early in games.
Stephen Means (12:47.425)
So I was thinking about this before I sat down to watch the game.
and whose offense is this between Justin Fields, C.J. Stroud, Dwayne Haskins, Will Howard, Kyle McCord? Like what are they doing right now? And it feels like some mixture of Will Howard and Kyle McCord.
where it isn’t, we have a weapon of mass destruction at quarterback. We have a guy who can do a little bit, but you don’t want to leave him out the dry. And it feels like you’re the column of court offense, but you have CJ Stroud at quarterback. And I think that’s the frustration because this is not an element of.
We have not gotten through four games and it feels like, yeah, this is probably how they have to do things because I don’t know if the quarterback play is where it needs to be. It’s very much the opposite of, yeah, why are you doing this? Your quarterbacks pretty awesome. You even said he was awesome. So why won’t you let him go be awesome?
Stephen Means (13:59.17)
Bo Jackson falls forward every single time.
We were joking about that last night at dinner, it’s I think that’s my new last week. Two weeks ago was carnal catches everything this week. It’s Bo Jackson just falls forward all the time. Couple other notes. Pistol pistol run stretch to the boundary is to Ryan Day. What QB power was to Urban Meyer. It’s just never going to go away. I have one defensive thought. I got to take back what I said about Lorenzo Salas after the game.
It wasn’t, it wasn’t great. It wasn’t bad. It just also what he’s good at what he’s good at, but he’s also very bad at what he’s bad at. I don’t have a ton of, I’m gonna, I’m actually gonna move out of the way a lot of this pod for at least this first half of it and let you have the day. So Stefan, take it away your views on the rewatch of the offense, because let me tell you why it’s not cause I don’t want to talk.
You’ve done this with me for a year. I have no problem talking. It’s because I…
I had feelings after the game. I started watching the game, the feelings started changing, and then the feelings went right back to where we are after the game. And so I don’t want to sound like I’m just repeating myself because I’m just going to say, throw it, trust your quarterback and act like you trust your quarterback. So the floor is yours for the next, however long you want to have the microphone have at it because I am.
Stephen Means (15:28.331)
I have an overwhelming question, an over-looming question that I’m gonna save for the second half of this pod that’s going to help me. But I have zero doubt in Julian saying, I have zero doubt in the weapons around him. I have doubt at the people at the control panel. And I’m trying to figure out why the people at the control panel are acting the way they are acting. So the floor is yours. Tell us about your thoughts of this offense.
Stefan Krajisnik (15:55.156)
Well, I’ll go through kind of some notes I have from this, which by the way, as we talk about Ohio State’s rushing attack, Quinchon Judkins just scored a touchdown. So he’s doing just fine now that he’s back on the field.
Stephen Means (15:58.24)
Okay.
Stephen Means (16:04.038)
Stefan Krajisnik (16:09.483)
Um, let’s start with a good thing. I tweeted this yesterday and I tweeted again this morning after rewatching the game a little bit. I’m not going to say he’s the best blocking receiver in the country just because I’m not going to pretend like I’ve watched every receiver in the country block, but it’d be hard pressed to find a lot of guys better at blocking downfield than Carnell Tate. And for a guy who is potentially going to be a first round pick and a guy who could have easily been pouting yesterday about not getting any targets because we were pouting for him.
Stephen Means (16:13.11)
Okay.
Stefan Krajisnik (16:37.407)
not getting any targets. He was balling out in terms of helping this team out in the running game and doing his part. So like there was a run, a toss, I think it was to CJ, maybe it was to Bo Jackson in the first quarter. And Max, as it happened, we noticed Max Clear had a hell of a block, but Cardinal Tate was right there to help and create the hole that led to, you know, probably like an eight or nine yard gain. So Cardinal Tate blocking has just been outstanding this year. The coaches have talked about it a lot and it was evident.
in this game against Washington. And that’s maybe part of the problem is we’re talking about Cardinal tape blocking as one of the compliments to this game. And you probably should have given him some targets early on. It’s just, it’s head scratching because this is what teams will do against you of, you know, dropping back safeties. There was a lot of too high, you know, looks that that Washington was throwing at Ohio state and double teams on, on Jeremiah Smith. And it’s like, if teams do that, are you just going to let them take away?
Stephen Means (17:07.021)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Means (17:27.02)
Yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (17:35.134)
JJ and Carnell Tate? are you, you, because Texas did that in the Cotton Bowl and guess what? It took away JJ and it was your worst offensive performance of the playoff. And you only scored 14 points when you played Texas Open this season. And yes, you can rely on your defense, but at some point you’re to have to ask Julian to make some plays. And is he going to be ready for that? I think, I think probably you and I both think probably, but you’re not preparing him for that because you’re being so conservative in the way you do it right now.
The rushing attack was decent early on. They were having some successes, taking what the defense gave them. And all that is fine. It just goes back to the point of your Ohio State, you don’t have to do what the defense gives you. And also you’re not letting Julian Sand establish any sort of rhythm until late in the first half where, shocker, when you started throwing it a bit more, things were going successfully. And all of this is everything we’re talking about right now.
is about the first half like the first three or four possessions, because in the second half, they were doing exactly what they should have been doing the whole game, right? Like, let’s let’s look at their drives in the second half here. So they get the touchdown right before halftime, they go up seven three, they come out of the half 14 plays 75 yards touchdown 11 plays 59 yards field goal eight plays 44 yards touchdown and then the game ends like
When you started throwing it around, you were having success. And it’s not like you, they weren’t doing it in a, in a risky matter or a risky manner. I should say that, you know, was, was going to cost you the game. They were throwing it conservatively too, which is fine. It was just a good way of getting the ball to carnal Tate and Jeremiah Smith and letting them be the guy to make the place for you. So if, if you’re Ohio state, you look at that second half, you say, was saying, be more aggressive and throw the ball. Doesn’t mean be risky. Doesn’t mean be reckless.
It just means find ways to get the balls here, get the ball your receivers, because they’re going to make plays for you because they did make plays for you. So we’re 17 points in the second half on four possessions and really only three possessions. you can play your game while still getting the ball to your weapons and not risking, you know, Julian saying making a freshman mistake or a first time starter mistake. So that’s the part that just has crashed into me is like. Conservative doesn’t have to look like that. Conservative can look like how it looked in the second half.
Stefan Krajisnik (19:58.354)
and you can be conservative just in a more successful way for what your personnel presents. It’s not like Washington in the second half was loading up the box and Ohio State was taking shots at downfield with Jeremiah Smith. Washington was doing what Washington was doing on defense and Ohio State just approached it differently in the second half, but it was more successful because Jeremiah Smith and Cardinal Tate are better than anybody else on your offense.
Stephen Means (20:23.254)
So here’s that opening drive of third quarter. First and 10 Julian saying throw to Jeremiah Smith for 13 yards. First and 10 Julian saying to Jeremiah Smith for eight yards. Second and two, and I remember us talking about this in the press box of, hey, second and two, take a shot. No, we’re gonna run the ball. No yards. Third and two, CJ Donaldson comes in, three yard gain.
First and 10, Julian Sand throw to Jeremiah Smith for six yards. Second and four, Julian Sand throw to Jelani Thurman for nine yards. First and 10, Julian Sand throw to James Peeples for seven yards. Second and three, Julian Sand throw to James Peeples for six yards. First and 10, CJ Donaldson seven yard run because you just threw it a bunch of times and you lightened up the boxes. So now all of a sudden you can run the football and you get seven yards out of it. The only problem was there was a penalty.
I think that was the penalty on Philip Daniels for the hands to the face. So it doesn’t matter. So it gets called back. Next play first and 22 Julian sand, the Jeremiah Smith or two yards second and 20 Julian sand throws a ball. It’s incomplete, but they get the roughing the passer on what I think is the craziest roughing the passer call. I’ve seen a long time. That was not roughing the passer. That’s tough. That’s That’s tough. Washington. You’re in a situation where it’s about to be third and forever.
Stefan Krajisnik (21:39.233)
That was bad, bad.
Stephen Means (21:46.165)
And instead it’s a 15 yard penalty in the first down first and 10 Jeremiah’s to Jeremiah Smith. It’s an incompletion second and 10 six yard run for Bo Jackson third and four Julian saying the car now take on what I think is one of his best reads of the game though. I don’t know if car now was the first read but the patience to allow that to develop kudos to Julian saying first and one CJ Donaldson in for the run. like overall even if you added all the penalty plays it’s 15 plays 10 throws five runs.
That’s all I’m asking.
Do that drive.
earlier and you’ll find the balance right because they ended up I think 19 throws and 18 runs in the second half versus 15 runs and 10 passes in the the in first half like you end up finding that balance you want to know why because you get up and then you start running the football because now you’re playing slower and trying to run the clock out to the car now take point he missed one block and then they zoomed him on him and he was pissed
that he missed the block. I think he was more upset that he missed the block than he was about the fact that he wasn’t getting the ball that day. that’s kudos to him and the team player that he was. Any other things you want to point out offensively before we get into the second half of spot? This is going to be a shorter one because we are still in Seattle and we have to get out of here and get back to the East Coast. But we’re also we’re going to be diving into offensive stuff for most of the week here because there’s nothing to talk about with the defense. They’re awesome.
Stephen Means (23:20.33)
And we’re going to say that every Saturday. It’s the offense where we’re trying to figure some things out.
Stefan Krajisnik (23:26.791)
guess one more thing I want to say, I talked about this a little bit on the, on the immediate post game pod of when it comes to, you know, Lorenzo styles, Tegra, Shambola, it’s clear where Ohio state stands on it. And until they do something and change something, I’m not going to sit here and really talk any more about, maybe Jermaine moves to the inside and Devin Sanchez plays some more, or maybe Ethan Owen Yawa starts to play some more. It’s just, that’s where Ohio state stands on that. And that’s fine. And frankly, I don’t know.
Stephen Means (23:40.566)
Uh-huh.
Stefan Krajisnik (23:55.103)
Are you expecting Brandon Innis to return the first punt against Minnesota?
Stephen Means (24:00.438)
Probably, probably.
I guess it’s worth asking, Dad, at some point this week, is Brandon still going to be your part-returner?
Stefan Krajisnik (24:16.925)
Yeah, that. So that’s it. I agree with you. think that’s. Yeah, I got you. I got you. You know, I agree with you. And then the so the point here is about Tegra. I mean, that that false start like Luke Montgomery, like Luke Montgomery hasn’t even given the signal like he’s he’s looking at Julian Saint. That’s a horrible false start in a situation where you cannot afford a false start. I don’t know, man, like
Stephen Means (24:19.872)
Did you hear me?
Stefan Krajisnik (24:43.955)
I don’t know what, you know, obviously we’re not at practice. So don’t know what Ethan and Oyao is looking like and maybe it’s not a better option, but hard press to not try something.
Stephen Means (00:00.247)
I think we might just have to start paying for the hotel upgrade. Wi-Fi. It’s only $3. So it’s probably worth it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I’m assuming they didn’t rotate this game because it was the first road game. And so you just wanted to stick with what you had and we’ll probably see back that rotation against Minnesota next week. But that’s on the list of things to ask Ryan day about this week. It’s barely in his punt returner.
What’s going on with your offense?
Stephen Means (00:33.973)
and what’s going on with Ethan and Yawa. that’s the thing, they go off of what they see in practice. And if this is what Tegra Shibola is showing on game day, that means that at best Ethan and Yawa is 1 % worst of this in practice for them. And we don’t watch practice during the season, so we have to just take them for their word at this, that this is what they’re rolling with. And this is a new offensive line coach, and an offensive line coach who was not here with Ethan and Yawa got here.
So there’s no like blind loyalty to anybody here. This is just whatever we’re seeing from Tegla. You have to imagine it’s 1 % worse for Ethan and Yawa right now or Ethan and Yawa would have probably taken the job right now. Okay. If that’s it offensively in terms of our overwhelming thoughts, I’ll continue to dive into this this week as well. I think I’m going to do a red spot with our Texas. I asked them after the game what they think Ohio State’s offensive identity is. And think that’s going to be the subject of the Tuesday pod. So we’ll continue to talk about this and we’ll talk with day about it on Tuesday.
as well. Let’s take a break and then I want to ask Stefan a question in that same vein of Ohio State’s offensive identity here on Buckeye Talk.
Stephen Means (01:42.369)
And we’re back here on Buckeye Talk. Stephen Means and Stefan Krejcik. It’s the Leave No Doubt pod. The answer is yes, we have no doubts in Julian Sand. I don’t even know if I have doubt right now. So maybe we’re not even following our structure the right way this week, but it’s.
Stephen Means (02:01.463)
Is this what Ryan Day wants offensively? I don’t think we’ve ever considered that. I think we have looked at what Ohio State has been and what its talent is. Cause if you just presented this roster to somebody, they’d go, Oh, you’re going to be throwing the ball all over the place. And you’re going to be in 11 personnel and 95 % of the time. And that’s going to be that. And
Stephen Means (02:28.245)
What if that’s not what they want to be anymore?
What if what we have seen from Ohio State the last four weeks? It looks more like Jim Trestle, but what if this is what they plan to be? They ran 62 plays on Saturday. I’ve been thinking about this story in the back of my head since Big Ten Media Days and I asked Ryan Day about it at Big Ten Media Days and I probably would ask him about it again on Tuesday to see if his thoughts have changed about it, about how fast Ohio State is or isn’t going, how many plays they’re running because Ryan Day more than maybe any coach has complained about.
the new clock rules and how there’s a lot less plays. mean, he did it after Tuesday’s game. How many less plays there are now grant you ran 62 plays and you lost a possession because your slot receiver fumbled upon return. So that plays into this as well. But here are their plays per game over the last essentially since Ryan Day got here as an offensive court area in 2017 and 2017 they averaged 73.5 plays per game in 2018 when they broke a bunch of passing records, 80.8 plays per game.
In 2019, 76.4 plays per game. In 2020, 71.3 plays per game. 2021, 70.5 plays per game. In 2022, now you’re starting to see it peak down a little bit. 67.4 plays per game. It’s the first time in the day era there were under 70. In 2023, new clock rules, right? The game changed a little bit. 63.9 plays per game.
Last year when they actively played slow and essentially load managed a season for good reason, right? They got to the playoff and they had run the least amount of plays of anybody left in the semi-final. 61.2 plays per game. You want to know where they’re at right now through four games? 61.25 plays per game. They are 126 in the nation in total plays run this season at 200.
Stephen Means (04:27.784)
and 45 plays run through four games and everybody’s played four or five games so far. are 126 nationally in total plays this season. They are playing slow. They are, we’ve talked about tempo and why they’re not playing more tempo. Last year they finished eighth, 989, but they also played 16 games. Everybody around them played
13 and 14 football games. So of course the teams I made the semi-final are in the top 10, but I mean they, they played two more games in Iowa state and ran the same amount of plays. They played three more games than UTSA and Syracuse and ran 11 less plays. So what if we’re in a tip to find out what Ohio state’s identity is, what if we have been looking at this wrong because we are still looking at this team and going,
The team that averaged 73, 80, 76, 71 and 21. The first five years Ryan Day was here when he had Heisman Trophy level first round draft pick quarterbacks. We are expecting now that he has that potentially again to spike back up to maybe it doesn’t get to 70 because of the clock rules, but maybe it’s around 67.4, which is where it was at CJ Strauss second year.
But what if that’s not what Ohio state is anymore? What if we looked at, Oh no, they’re only up seven to three and getting the ball coming out of the halftime. It was a chance to win the middle eight by scoring 14 points in a span of eight minutes. And now they’re up 14 to three by the time Washington gets the ball back. What if we looked at that and said, this is weird. Why is your offense not clicking? And they’re looking at that and going, this is exactly what we want it up 14 to three.
on the road the next time Washington touches the ball. What if that’s how they look at things and if that’s true then does it drastically change the way we view what this offense is capable of doing in the regular season?
Stefan Krajisnik (06:37.934)
Yeah, I think it’s, it’s a fair question. It’s kind of the, you know, if it walks like a duck, then, you know, that analogy. So I think, I think you’re right. And I think part of maybe why we, I guess glossed over it last year was we viewed it in the load management light instead of the, is their offense light, right?
Stephen Means (06:56.501)
Yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (06:58.286)
And maybe that’s, maybe you’re right because now we’re four games into this and we’re seeing, you know, all these tight end packages and they’re playing slower and you know, they’re, playing a bit more conservative and you know, maybe we’re pinning it to, Hey, they want to be safe with, with a young quarterback, or maybe that, that that’s just what this offense is. And if that’s the case, I mean, it’s like, if that’s the case, that’s the case, but it’s, it’s still a bit confusing to me because I guess I understood it more last year because you had Chip Kelly.
Stephen Means (06:59.605)
Mm-hmm.
Stefan Krajisnik (07:27.374)
one of the best, you know, rush attack offensive minds in college football and just football history in general. And this is what it looks like. And then you shift to Brian Hartline and it’s more tight ends and it’s more of this kind of, you know, slow conservative approach. And if that’s, if that’s what your identity is, then that’s what it is. But your personnel and your play caller and all that doesn’t really match it.
Stephen Means (07:42.493)
Stefan Krajisnik (07:54.679)
And it kind of is it’s confusing, right? Like it’s it’s almost like square peg round hole, but yet it fits and it’s working. So you can’t really question it too much, I guess. You get what I’m trying to say?
Stephen Means (08:11.636)
Yeah, and I guess my question is, is it working or does it just not matter that it’s not working?
Stefan Krajisnik (08:19.222)
I guess right now I’d lean toward the latter.
Stephen Means (08:20.15)
Like your defense has given up two touchdowns. Yeah, because I mean, your defense has given up two touchdowns and the two touchdowns they gave up one were, I mean, I think you could have made a case that the Texas Titan didn’t catch the ball, right? It wasn’t like it was a bang bang play against a cornerback who earlier in the game had a pick. So it’s whatever is fine. And the other one was an explosive play where, you know, an Ohio State player just had like a mind, you know, blip.
Right? So it’s like what they weren’t the two plays that they’ve given up touchdowns on weren’t like, a team was driving on them and they closed out a drive with a touchdown. They were just kind of random, explosive plays that you can’t always account for. And it’s just football tops a reason. So if your defense who’s given up five points a game right now, and no one has scored 10 points on it, we’d set them in the post game pod. When’s the next time somebody scores 10 points against Ohio state and the, our answers weren’t
football reasons. It was just like, oh, I don’t know. Somebody just fluke lead like backdoor covers or something like that. It wasn’t like designed. This team is good enough to score 10 points on Ohio State. Then, okay, you’re up seven and three at halftime and you’re getting the ball and you’re going to 14 to three. And we’re going to do this every week of why won’t you throw the JJ? Why won’t you throw the car now? Cause we’ll have to. But because it’s because the thing is, especially the place I am going to be nicer is
When they needed it, it was there.
Right. Every time they went to flip the switch on the light came on. I think my concern is what happens if one week you go to turn the light on and it doesn’t turn on. Right. Cause that’s what happened. Against Michigan last year.
Stephen Means (10:10.293)
That’s what happened in the cotton ball after the 23 season. Now, granted, you also were missing a quarterback in your best receiver. So that’s part of the reason why, right? There were times where we used to put this on the defense of like, hey man, at some point, someone’s gonna score 30 plus points and your offense is just not gonna have it that day. And that’s what happened against Oregon in 2021. That’s what happened against Michigan in 2021. That’s what happened against Michigan in 2022. that’s my is, what happens when you go to,
have JJ put a Superman cape on, maybe he just doesn’t have it one day. What happens if all of a sudden you’re throwing Julian Sand in too many third long situations, because you tried to run it on first and second down multiple times, and now teams are just teeing off on you? What happens if all, Cerabell has been very good. All he has to do is miss one block, and it’s a sack.
And the same with Philip Daniels and Luke Montgomery and Carson Hensman. All it takes is a Tegra Shabola false start.
Stephen Means (11:16.638)
and your entire drive gets thrown off.
Stephen Means (11:21.854)
But the other side of that coin is, okay, but what if that never happens?
Stephen Means (11:28.532)
And then we just spent this entire year complaining about something that’s an issue, but it’s not an issue they actually have to pay for.
Stefan Krajisnik (11:35.599)
Hey, I think what’s interesting about that too, is you say like what happens one week if you flip the switch and it’s not there. You know, we live in this world where, okay, you lose a regular season game, but Ohio State last year flipped the switch for the playoff. Okay, what if you flip the switch for that first playoff game and it’s not there and now your season’s over? And I think that’s the part that, like I understood it last year from the load management perspective, but part of it me worries, right? But part of me worries this year is that
Stephen Means (11:48.8)
Yeah!
Stephen Means (11:59.371)
they were old.
Stefan Krajisnik (12:03.918)
Is your plan to kind of just mosey through the regular season and probably go, I mean, at this point, 11 and one at worst. I’m not picking them to lose against anyone other than Michigan at this point, based on how Penn State looks. So it’s like, you can kind of cruise through this regular season and then you’re going to flip your switch for the playoff again. Sure, that’s fine, but you’re going to be asking Julian Sayen and Bo Jackson.
and Max Clear and Brandon Ennis to be part of flipping the switch. Whereas last year, we’re talking about a Mecca, Bucca and Quintin John Jenkins and Trevion Henderson guys who have played a whole lot more college football. And that’s that’s it’s it’s risky. And so if this is what their offense if this is what they want their offense to be in the playoff, so be it play games like this, you know, when when 30 to seven, you’re fine. You’ll win playoff games like that. The problem is
Stephen Means (12:35.957)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Means (12:52.022)
Mm-hmm.
Stefan Krajisnik (12:53.59)
If tomorrow, if Minnesota was round one of the college football playoff, I think they would try to flip the switch and play like they did last year in the playoff. And that’s what’s confusing is like, I, that’s the part that’s confusing is we talk about identity, identity, identity is what we saw against Washington and what we’ve seen the last four weeks, their identity. If you think yes, then why, when we get to the college football playoff, are you going to tell me, Hey, they’re about to start Aaron and I’ll let JJ do his thing because it’s the playoff.
So is your identity who you are for 12 games or is your identity who you are in your best game, in your biggest game?
Stephen Means (13:29.608)
You remember when Kawaii went to the Raptors?
And they were doing that weird thing with him where he played like 30 something games or something like that. And he was like in the lineup and out the lineup. And it’s like, what’s quite doing? And then they all of sudden they got to the the playoffs. OK. That’s why you did that. yeah. Forgot. Kwai is like really awesome when he plays football. We were talking about this on the train on the way home on the way back to the. Yeah, he might be nice of football to who knows. We were talking about this on the train where we were heading back to the hotel.
Stefan Krajisnik (13:53.912)
festival.
Stephen Means (14:04.628)
Jeremiah Smith has played a lot of football in a very short amount of time. And in fact, I think he’s played in, I think his team has reached the championship game every year since he’s been in like the eighth grade. So he’s been, his seasons have been marathons for a long time. And he grew up in South Florida playing against like dudes who are now playing in college football all over the country. So this is not a guy who was sleepwalking through high school football games.
and then got to college and now he had to get used to a new level of college football. Like, mean, his, their nickel, D’Angelo Pons, who again, best cornerback in the Big 10, wasn’t playing outside cornerback in high school. He was playing nickel. That’s how good Shamanand Madonna was.
So because of that, I’m not gonna say he broke down last year, but he wasn’t 100%, right? He had a little hamstring thing going on and they needed to rest him.
and you think about Maurice Claret and it’s not the same position, but do you want to kill your best weapon who’s not even 20 years old yet?
Probably not. think there with JJ, I think there is a balance of one, you are still correct. They allowed Washington to dictate things. It’s like, so what? Find a way to scheme Jeremiah Smith open. You’re trying to balance that with keeping him involved. There’s Heisman. I think he’s up to like third best Heisman odds right now, which was a.
Stephen Means (15:37.97)
Which is hilarious to me. All that meant was they were waiting on the Ohio State to play a big 10 game and then they were going to move up Ohio State’s players and the Heisman odds conversation. And now that they’ve got a big 10 game, we can start paying attention to them the same way we’ve been paying attention to Fernando Mendoza and John Matier and everybody else in the conversation. But you’re trying to manage that. You’re trying to manage making sure Jeremiah Smith is who is still Jeremiah Smith on January 18th or 19th, whatever day of the game is this year. Right.
You don’t want the Jackson Smith, the jigma situation where you build an entire office around them and then he gets hurt. it’s like, now what? But also Jeremiah Smith’s got another year here. So.
Stephen Means (16:17.374)
is Jeremiah Smith, their Kawhi Leonard, where he ended up with his numbers, right? It’s not like he had a terrible day. He had eight catches for 81 yards and one touchdown where they started force feeding the ball in the second half on nine targets. He was fine. He didn’t blow you away, but it was fine. His stats this year are gonna end up being like Marv’s in 23 where it’s like, the stats aren’t blowing you away, but we all watch football.
But you know, you get him his numbers, you play the game, but you don’t kill him. So that way when you get to December and January, we all go, yeah. Like Matt Lenard tweeted out on Saturday night, think Mackay Lemons, the best wide receiver in college football. Listen, Mackay is a very good receiver. Number four still exists and he might be Kawhi Leonard. Well, they got a slow play this a little bit just to get him to the college football playoff. But to your point,
I don’t know. Like you can’t. I don’t know if it’s the wrong approach because it worked last year. They won a national championship, but this is a younger roster that’s still trying to figure it out. And if you’re going to play 61 plays a game, I don’t know if on the same note, can you complain about the fact that you have less plays when you also opened up the second half with an eight minute drive?
Stephen Means (17:35.584)
So like, don’t know, have to find a conclusion here. Like what is our conclusion? How are we watching this? I’m sure both of us are gonna spend next weekend watching this offense again. How are we going to watch this offense if it feels like my theory might have some juice to it?
Stefan Krajisnik (17:42.519)
I think.
Stefan Krajisnik (17:56.845)
Yeah, I, I’m gonna keep going with this Raptors comparison because I kind of like it because because you were saying Kawhi played 60 games that year. And he averaged you he still ended up averaging 26 points per game and was ninth in the MVP voting like this is JJ like you’re kind of managing him a bit but he’s still gonna end up being you know, top five top 10 in the Heisman conversation he’s still gonna he’s still gonna get his right but you’re just you’re using him in a different way. I guess my question is
Stephen Means (18:02.303)
See ya!
Stephen Means (18:12.099)
You
Stefan Krajisnik (18:24.834)
When they were careful with Kawhi, Pascal Siakam played 80 games and averaged 16.9 points per game and was the most improved player. So sure, do what you’re doing with JJ, but who’s Pascal? Is it Carnell Tate or do you think it’s Bo Jackson and Max Clair and Will Casmeric? That’s my question is.
Sure do this with with JJ. Where’s carnell? He had no targets. Shouldn’t someone be getting sure load manage JJ then fine You don’t want to you don’t want him to have 20 catches a game and keep getting the hit. Okay Get the ball to carnell. That’s I don’t know if there is a conclusion I think the is i’m i’m a little confused because i’m gonna go back to what I said earlier You’re right. Maybe this is their identity if they were playing a college football playoff game tomorrow Do you think that’s how they would play it?
Stefan Krajisnik (19:16.226)
And if your answer is no, then how can that be their identity?
Stephen Means (19:17.459)
I have absolutely zero dollar in my mind that they would start.
How can you be one thing for four months and then be a totally different thing for the other six months?
Stephen Means (19:31.869)
Well, they did it last year.
Stephen Means (19:40.425)
But I guess the question is, can they do that again?
Stephen Means (19:46.536)
If the way you sound confused is because this offense is confusing. Because there’s a simple thing to do here and they’re not doing it. And I can’t figure out why they’re, at this point, I think most people have come to the conclusion they are choosing to not do it. And the question is why are you choosing not to do it? And there might be a valid answer to that question. I don’t, I’m not.
Ignore to the fact that we might get the answer to that and be like, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Okay, cool. Keep doing that. But also it’ll change the way we talk about things. Right now, because it’s Monday as people are listening to this and Sunday afternoon as we’re recording this, well, it’s Sunday afternoon in the East Coast. We’re still in Seattle, so it’s technically still a Sunday morning. But we don’t have the answer to that question yet. So we are living in a why the heck are you doing this mode?
So as a result, yes, the offense I still have doubts in, but it’s not from a, it’s not a personnel question. It’s how the coaching is impacting the scheme question.
Stefan Krajisnik (20:58.03)
Yeah, and I think I agree with you 100%. I think the part of it too that I guess it may be validation of if you’re listening to this pod and it sounds super negative after, you know, a win on the road against a big 10 team, we’re not taking anything away from that. I think it’s a lot of people on the beat, I think would agree with us because I went through and I’m looking at a lot like Doug and Bill were doing a watch along with the game from home.
And like I wanted to see their reaction to some of the first half stuff. So I was kind of going through it and they were kind of scratching their head too. I think Bill had said when, when JJ got his touch on it, it’s like, look what happens when you get the ball to Jeremiah Smith. Like he was thinking the same thing we were thinking in the first half. like I’m going to look at on Twitter. think it was.
Stephen Means (21:28.531)
Mm-hmm.
Stefan Krajisnik (21:45.251)
Dave Biddle and Jay Book, like they were saying you should bet the first half under just because of how Ryan Day was talking about this game. like he was telling you that he was going to be conservative and the first half under hit pretty easy. The team total under I should say seven points in the first half for Ohio State. Like they were scratching their head being like he was telling you he’s going to do this and yet he’s doing it. It doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense. Like everyone was kind of confused. And I think we’re just trying to make sure that when Ohio State the standard is a standard.
Stephen Means (21:52.126)
Thank you.
Stefan Krajisnik (22:13.614)
A win doesn’t necessarily mask everything, right? Because there was a lot in that first half that I just kept looking over at Stephen being like, if this is how they’re going to do it, this is how they’re going to lose to Michigan again. And I think that that’s what matters, right? Everything Ohio State does. Number one is win that game. Number two is how is it going to impact the matchup games? How is that going to impact the Michigan game, the playoff game? And I think we’re sitting there looking at it being like, if this is how they play against Michigan, they’re going to lose. If this is how they’re going to play in the playoff, sure, maybe they can win, but
Stephen Means (22:24.266)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Means (22:28.595)
Mm-hmm.
Stefan Krajisnik (22:41.006)
I just don’t think that’s how they want to do it in the playoff. And it’s this kind of balance of what you do in regular season, is it going to be what you do in the playoff? If you think you can flip the switch like you did last year, sure. This is a new team. It’s a different team. If you try to ask them to flip a switch, it might look different than when you asked Trevion Quintchon, G Scott, and Rebecca Muka to do it.
Stephen Means (23:07.093)
So I guess my conclusion is…
We are not worried about this offensive ability to do anything that we think it can do.
We are worried about, because we even saw proof that they could do it. Why are you not doing the thing you do very well more? And I’m saying that understanding there might be a legitimate reason for why. And that’s what I want to find out on Tuesday. Get the text 614-350-3315. It’s a two week free trial, 399 after that.
going to continue to have this conversation throughout the week. We’re to take one last break and then give I just want us to give our like reaction on Penn State real quick. The live show this week, we’re to be breaking down quarterback playing the big 10 and essentially giving who we think the top five quarterbacks are. And we’re all going to give our own list. We’re all going to give our own reasons for why we have people on the list. But I do want to have a short conversation, look around the country. Um, the obviously the two bigger biggest games this week were Alabama.
at Georgia, Oregon at Penn State. The road team won both of those games. I don’t know how much we’re going to talk about the Penn State Oregon game, maybe more than Alabama, Georgia, just because that game impacts Ohio State a little bit more than the other one does. So let’s take our final break and then just give some quick thoughts on what we think of Oregon and Penn State here on Buckeye Talk. And we’re back here on Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means and Stefan Kreisnick. It’s your Leave No Doubt pod. A little more respect for Illinois.
Stephen Means (24:46.311)
After pulling out the one over USC. Little bit more.
Stefan Krajisnik (24:50.21)
Yeah, yeah, a little bit. think we could make some jokes about Lincoln Riley, I’m sure, but I was pretty confident that Illinois was going to bounce back and look better. Brett Bielema is too good of a coach for them to just continue rolling over after a dud of a game like that against Indiana.
Stephen Means (25:12.401)
Is was that the most James Franklin way James Franklin has ever lost a game?
Stefan Krajisnik (25:19.022)
It’s up there, man. That was, I mean, that was brutal. You come back, you’re finally thinking, this isn’t the James Franklin way to lose a game. And they’re gashed in Oregon and doing whatever they want. And you’re finally thinking to yourself, not, their receivers aren’t really getting involved, but it’s kind of working because they’re running all over them. And then the first play after you need to score and drive, you pass it and it’s a pick and the game ends.
Stephen Means (25:48.937)
Do we have to pretend like we’re scared of Penn State when they come to Columbus on November 1st?
Stefan Krajisnik (25:55.947)
What is that offense going to do against Ohio State’s defense?
Stephen Means (26:02.525)
I mean, the way we just got done talking about this offense and the first two parts of this pod, that would seem like the game when Ryan Dan, Brian Hartland say, you go, Julian. It’s at home. You’ve literally that’s going to be the first time he’ll be in a situation where he’s done this before.
And they also know Jim Knowles because they worked with him for three years.
Stephen Means (26:29.521)
That would be the game where they would allow Julian saying off deletion, allow him to operate with these receivers. And you mix that with.
If Penn State scores nine points on Ohio State, I’ll be shocked. I’m saying this on a pod knowing it can be clipped in a month and somebody have it all over the internet. if they score nine points on Ohio State, I will be shocked.
Stefan Krajisnik (26:57.762)
I’m with you. I also think that we’re going to do the quarterback show. So I’ll save it for the quarterback show. It might be time for an uncomfortable conversation about your app.
Stephen Means (27:13.895)
We can do, yeah, yeah, save your thoughts. Save your thoughts for Wednesday. It’s just.
Oregon’s good.
Stefan Krajisnik (27:25.218)
Yes.
Stephen Means (27:25.333)
Oregon’s good. Oregon’s a very good football team. And I think we’re here now. We’ll see what happens with Michigan and Sharon Moore and Bryce Underwood. But I think we are living in the Nick Saban versus Urban Meyer in the SEC world where it’s Ryan Day versus Dan Landing. See you in Indianapolis.
Stefan Krajisnik (27:55.394)
Problem is we thought that last year, but yes, I agree. If things go as you expect things would go, yes, these two programs should be in Indianapolis pretty regularly against each other.
Stephen Means (28:07.477)
Yeah, and I think that’s Oregon’s only ranked opponent left on there. Oh, no, no, no, they got they have Indiana too. Okay, so it’s Indiana. If they get through Indiana, they’re going to Big Ten Championship game. Ohio State’s got to go through Penn State lol and get through Michigan and they’ll be in the Big Ten Championship game. It’s just right now the way both of these teams are playing. I think that’s a fair assumption to make. But to your point, we thought that last year in the house, they dropped the ball against Michigan. So are they going to drop the ball against Michigan or not? After this at the end of the year here? Okay, that’s it. All right, we’re gonna
Continue to have this conversation later in the week. I’m sorry, this is a shorter pod. I think it’s shorter. I think it’s shorter. Stop, I said I wasn’t going to say that anymore. We’re just gonna pod and it’s going to be what it is going to be. That’ll be the Leave No Doubt pod. It’s not necessarily doubt in the offense. It’s more just questions about.
approach and how they’re doing things offensively and like what’s the reason behind that to get the text 614-353-3315 to two week free trial 399 after that Ranspot coming your way on Tuesday and then we’ll be back in the Woody talking with Ryan Day as the Buckeyes shape shift their focus to Minnesota and what will be their only home game in October one day game in the shoe and then we’ll be back in the shoe in November when they play Penn State. So for Stefan Kreisig I’m Stephen Means. We’ll talk to you guys later.