By Catriona Stewart
Copyright scotsman
The female engineer at the centre of a row over mixed sex toilets said allegations she planned to “out” transgender colleagues were “shocking”. Maria Kelly is suing aerospace firm Leonardo UK for harassment and direct and indirect discrimination she alleges happened at its offices in Edinburgh. Ms Kelly said she was forced to use a “secret” women’s toilet in the workplace to avoid having to share the space with males. Susanne Tanner KC, representing Leonardo, highlighted a letter from the company that spoke of plans by Ms Kelly to crowdfund her legal defence. The letter said the crowdfunding might lead to publicity that could result in the trans individuals becoming “part of the story”. Under cross-examination, the people and capability lead for the aerospace defence company, said: “I understand there was a concern about the identities becoming part of the story… there was no suggestion there was any names coming from me.” She then said: “To suggest that I would leak names is pretty shocking.” On Thursday, the second day of the employment tribunal before employment judge Michelle Sutherland, Ms Kelly told the court that she had sought the company’s policy on access to toilets after realising she had “shared a toilet with a male”. She spoke of having grown up in a household where the women were extra vigilant about safety due to the sexual assault of her mother. Ms Kelly further said she was experiencing particularly heavy periods during perimenopause and needed a private space for her “ablutions”. In March 2023, the court had heard, Ms Kelly encountered a trans woman, known as Person B, in the women’s toilets at the company. Ms Tanner asked her why she had not mentioned the incident during a grievance process with Leonardo UK. Ms Kelly said she had not wanted to have to name an individual colleague because her issue was not related specifically to that person. Ms Tanner said mentioning a name is different from mentioning an incident, saying Ms Kelly also failed to mention this incident during her appeals process. Ms Kelly, a Leonardo employee of more than 18 years and who has a clean employment record, said she accepted it was not included in the minutes of her grievance meetings. Leonardo’s KC also said changes had been made to toilet provision in the firm’s offices in the wake of her complaints, despite Ms Kelly’s grievance not being upheld. Judge Sutherland also asked Ms Kelly about which toilets she would use in the workplace. She explained that she had changed her “pattern” of use after she “became aware any activity could be witnessed by male colleagues.” After Ms Kelly’s evidence, Leonardo’s vice-president of people shared services, Andrew Letton, was examined and cross-examined. He described the nature of the defence company’s policies on diversity, saying: “We have got an inclusive culture in the business. “We’ve invested heavily in creating this environment.” Mr Letton said changes had been made to toilet provision at Leonardo UK with additional changes being made in the past few weeks. He was asked by Naomi Cunningham, lawyer for Ms Kelly, whether the company’s internal policies were influenced by a “gender identity theory point of view”. She pointed to language on the company’s intranet such as “dead naming” and “gender assigned at birth”. Mr Letton, who joined the company in 1977, was asked whether the firm’s position had changed and whether a “man wearing a dress” would have been accepted at work in 1990. He said he could not speak to what the view would have been at that time. When asked by Ms Cunningham when the “problem” of staff transitioning from men to women became apparent, Mr Letton said he did not view this as a “problem”. The tribunal was set to be heard over four days but parties agreed additional time would be needed. The hearing continues.
