CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins take a nostalgic look at the hoop mixtape era of the 2000s and early 2010s.
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Takeaways:
John Wall’s retirement prompted the hosts to nostalgically rank their all-time favorite high school basketball mixtapes.
The hosts distinguish the “classic” raw, grainy mixtape era from today’s “cringe,” overly produced content, which they feel lacks authenticity.
Great mixtapes, according to the hosts, feature guards with elite handles, future superstars dominating average competition, and smaller players showcasing incredible athleticism.
Seventh Woods’ mixtape is considered legendary because it went viral when he was just 14, showing him dunking on seniors, with its mystique enhanced by his career never matching the initial hype.
While both hosts included John Wall in their top five, they disagreed on his ranking, with one praising his showmanship and the other finding his mixtape “overrated.”
Other notable top-five picks included Austin Rivers for his swagger, Marcus Lovett for his handles, Brandon Jennings for his early deep-three shooting, and Zion Williamson for his generational athleticism.
Aquille Carr was the unanimous No. 1 pick for the best high school mixtape of all time.
Carr’s iconic status stems from his 5′6″ frame, mind-bending handles, shocking athleticism, and the lore of being nicknamed the “The Crime Stopper” in Baltimore.
Honorable mentions included hyped prospects like Zion Williamson and Andrew Wiggins, as well as players known for specific skills like Dennis Smith Jr. and Lonzo Ball.
The hosts believe the mixtape era influenced modern basketball culture, potentially creating a “highlight-driven league” where fans prefer short clips to watching full games.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, the ball knower himself, Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com columnist and we are going to get into a topic that only ball knowers can dissect. And Jimmy, Obviously in the 2025, 2026 NBA season is right around the corner. Training camp, as we’ve mentioned on recent podcasts, is nearing on the horizon as well. So I’m getting a little bit restless and the way that I handle my restlessness is looking back into the past. And the reason that this came to mind for a podcast topic is that John Wall Retired John Wall is one of the most electric players to ever grace the game of basketball with his premier speed and flashiness. A player whose high school mixtape is still etched in basketball lore. But that’s not ultimately how his career is defined. Obviously there were injuries and all these different things, but his story is as much about brilliance as it is about the unforgiving realities of the NBA. So I don’t want to talk about those. I want to talk about his glory days. And not just his glory days, but hoop mixtapes as a whole. I don’t know about you, Jimmy, but back in the day, all I can wait for when I was in elementary, middle school, high school was the next Ball is Life hoops mixtape to drop on YouTube. It doesn’t matter how grainy the pixels were. It didn’t matter how long the VO wars are in these cases, how short they were. But I was ready to see who was going to be next to drop their next mixtape and who was going to have the best one as of yet. And I know we’ve already prefaced this, Jimmy. We talked about this a little bit behind the scenes, but we’re going to go into our top five high school basketball mixtapes of all time. We’ve talked a lot about the video game aspect of this. We talked a lot about how these guys translated their game to the NBA in previous podcasts. But I think the hoop mixtape era is a disappearing art, right? Because of now high school prospects are able to pay for these platforms to come and show up and record and post their games. Rather than when Ball is light walked into the gym in high school or who’s mixtape walked into the gym. You knew it was going to be a movie. There wasn’t these mic’d up players or anything like that. It was just go out there and do what you do and if it gets caught on camera. So be it. But, Jimmy, I want to just get your thoughts before we dive into all of this about the hoop mixtape era, how this affected your life, and just the excitement that you have around basketball, coming back in just a few weeks.
Jimmy Watkins: I mean, I spent hours around friends, laptops. Like, not. Not even everyone has a chair. Like, someone’s got a chair, maybe two people have a chair, and then you’re like standing behind them and you’re all like, shake. It’s like you’re at the game. You’re all shaking each other after every highlight. In my opinion, the grainier the mixtape, the better. It’s like you’re seeing something you shouldn’t. It’s. It’s got a real, like, I don’t know, this was recorded on a cell phone kind of feel to it. Someone who was actually there. This is like a real home movie. Whereas today I was looking at. As I was watching. Cause I was at Brown’s today, but in between, I was preparing, procrastinating. I was watching a bunch of mixtapes, old and new, just to like, get a feel. Because I wanted to. I wanted to put some time in. And the newer ones, yeah, they’re clearer, they’re better edited, but I kind of don’t like that. Like the. The word mixtape conjures a feeling of you threw something. It’s like. I mean, the original mixtapes are like, you burn a CD and it’s a bunch of songs that you. Another. Another staple of my high school. I still have a bunch of burned CDs that I don’t even know what to do with. I tried to play them on my PS4 recently, and they don’t even do that. But it’s just like a. This is a token of a different era. And I feel like today we’re getting high School hoop albums instead of high school hoop mixtapes or high school hoop eps, right? Like, there’s a very produced and to your point, about, like, if you’re miked up. That’s so lame. That’s so lame. There’s no authenticity to it. Like, the. I see now we take it a step further. We have people in like, men’s league trying to make mixtapes for content purposes. And just like, you could not be more cringe right now, right? Whereas, like, you go up, you watch Austin Rivers old mixtape, it’s just like him looking at the camera and saying, but I’m gonna go off. I’m gonna go off right now. And it’s like, hell, yeah, let’s go. I have so much love in my heart for these. Another thing I would say is that I feel like it’s a lost art in that there’s like the. I don’t know, there’s. You’re losing this sense of, of an era. I was looking for the Thompson twins. Cause I was like, oh man, I bet theirs was insane. And I see a lot of them as like 8th graders and high schoolers. But then they went to overtime elite and now overtime elite’s cutting their highlights and I just feel like, you know, I could probably find. I probably have a better chance finding them on TikTok. They might. They probably posting their own highlights. The way who mixtape or ball is life had like a sort of monopoly on this kind of content. I love that because it was easier to go, oh, oh, I’ve found 7th Woods’s mixtape all over here. They’ve just posted John Walls and Brandon’s like easier to go on a rabbit hole. Easier to find these. And I feel like. So my list is going to be. This is a preview mostly old school guys. Maybe depending on feel about one of them, a newer guy. And I, I would like to say I’m mostly looking for guards. I’m looking for handles. And I want on someone jumps high. I want to notice it like Ben Simmons, incredible high school basketball player. You’re just bullying people smaller than you and your, your handles are great. Another guy who just retired, sort of. I’m not sure if Ben Simmons actually retired or not, but like, is that a retirement or did you get booted? I’m not sure. And his handles for his size are great, but it’s not impressive to me. It’s way more impressive for me to watch Akil Carr dunk. If you guys don’t know who Akil Carr is, you should probably pause this podcast right now. You should pause this podcast right now. He has some of the greatest highlights you’ll ever see on the Internet. Then Ben Simmons, crossing someone over. Like, I’m just outlining my taste for you at the start here.
Ethan Sands: I feel like we have a very similar taste when it comes to hoop mixtapes because I think all but one of my players on my top five list is considered a guard and that I do have honorable mentions because I think there are bigger players that you simply cannot ignore. Just to be frank, Ben Simmons is not on my list. But also to your point, Jimmy, about like content creators or basketball hoops content creators nowadays, sometimes I walk into like an LA Fitness or something and there’ll be cameras or somebody with a Cameraman there at the gym. And I’m like, okay, I know who I’m going at. Immediate hip.
Jimmy Watkins: I tell you, this happened. This happened. I was playing outside. I was playing outside maybe a month and a half ago and these two dudes pulled up. Not only do they. It’s one thing I have gotten over the shock. I still don’t like it. I’ve gotten over the shock of kids, like recording every pickup game they’re in and like setting their phones along the wall. I think that’s strange as hell, but I’ve gotten over it. These dudes were wearing lab mics on their, on their jerseys. Okay, Even that. Like, all right, you must be. They told the. One of the dudes was really tall and he was telling me when he played D1, me and my boys beat them. Just like, you got to be good. You got to be good if you’re going to do that stuff. And I was just thoroughly unimpressed. I don’t know how they’re going to. I don’t even know how they’re going to edit that content together and make it look good. I mean, maybe is that like, do you have to. Is there a bad batch? Do you have to play like five games to put together a compilation? These dudes were not. Not very good.
Ethan Sands: I don’t know how people are doing this nowadays, but kudos to them. Some of them are making money off of it. Like off TikTok and stuff. I know, even away from the basketball sphere. But like baseball and softball are like, like slow pitch softball. Even. Like some people are playing with meta glasses that allow you to record everything that’s going on while you’re playing. That’s kind of cool, but still also like, come on.
Jimmy Watkins: Actually, I don’t mind. Like, I’m oddly like entranced by a cut up. A cut up. I’ve seen those. It’s like a guy playing third base and getting a bunch of hard hit balls and how he fields him. I kind of like it. But I can promise you if I was playing in the softball league and I saw that guy, I’d be like, I’m trying to. I’m trying to beam this dude. I’m trying to hit him with a baseball.
Ethan Sands: Just like in basketball, if you see somebody that you know is getting recorded, I’m trying to do the clip and it’s not going to be good for you. But let’s get back to these high school basketball hoop mixtapes. And while we’re on the topic of just mixtapes in general, I think we all have to admit the best overall mixtape of all time is West Virginia Tavon Austin football mixtape. That’s why we have specified that these are basketball and high school mixtapes. Could be any year, whatever.
Jimmy Watkins: Tayvon Austin’s fast, his mixtape turn off some Reggie Bush highlights. That’s all I’ll say.
Ethan Sands: Oh, I mean, yes, of course, of course. But I’m saying the iconic song in the background for Taylor Austin.
Jimmy Watkins: I get it. It’s the most prominent of all time. I don’t know that it’s the best.
Ethan Sands: Okay, that’s fair, I’ll give you that. But like that’s also part of mixtapes.
Jimmy Watkins: It’s.
Ethan Sands: Is it not like the music being put behind it, the editing that’s in it. Especially as we talk about these old school mixtapes. Jimmy, like if you. Who was editing these? Not some guy that’s working at ESPN now, right? Like it’s a guy on his laptop at the game, literally editing and putting it together at the same time. So anyway, want to get to these honorable mentions that I have? Zion Williamson. Zion is one of those players that was too big for his own good at the high school level, but some of the dunks that are on his high school mixtape are simply insane. Another player who still just has the athleticism to jump out of the gym, Dennis Smith Jr. And also a point for our news NBA guys. Dennis Smith Jr. Just signed a one year deal to return to the Dallas Mavericks today on the time that we’re recording this podcast on Thursday, September 18th. And my two other honorable mentions are getting kind of closer to what we’re looking for. For this top five list, I have Shareef Cooper, who was one of the most smooth basketball players, played alongside Isaac Okoro at McEachern High School and also had immense success at the national and AAU level. And then the Cleveland Cavaliers own Lonzo Ball. Chino Hill’s mixtape was phenomenal, especially his senior season. Those are my four honorable mentions. Before we get into my top five list, Jimmy, do you have any honorable mentions to ask?
Jimmy Watkins: I’d throw Andrew Wiggins in. Unbelievable. Unbelievable dunks. Unbelievable verticals. I mostly don’t care for hoop mixtape clips where you’re just throwing an alley oop to yourself in warmups. No, no, no, no, no. To watch 17, 16 through 18 year old Andrew Wiggins leap, period. Is art. One of the most hyped. I feel like if you weren’t there, you don’t know. One of the most hyped recruits of all time. I mean, honestly, based on, based on what was behind him. Pretty disappointing NBA career. He had a nice moment with the warriors as like their second best player during the 2022 title, but never lived up to anything. I mean, forget number one pick when Wiggins was in high school, man, like we were talking LeBron, we were talking. We do this too often. The next, we’re always looking for the next, whoever the best player is. We were really talking about it. Him. And I mean, Jabari Parker too supports Illustrated had the COVID Jabari Parker was on cover of Sports Illustrated at the asking the question, is this the next LeBron? Like these things really happened. I think I want to give a shout out to Jabari Parker in general who would have had a really nice NBA career had he not had all the knee injuries, but Andrew Wiggins. I’m still actually debating between my fifth guy as we sit here. Okay, so I think my honorable mentor’s gonna be Austin Rivers. Austin Rivers just has a great mix of everything. Austin Rivers, super cool, now a podcaster, shout out, but just a super cool mix of good dunks and crowd interaction and some float games, some crosses. There’s just a lot of good stuff on Austin Rivers hoop mixtape. So I’ll throw him in there as well.
Ethan Sands: All right, now let’s get into these top five. And Jimmy, I’m definitely surprised you have Austin Rivers on honorable mention. He is in my list. He’s not in the fifth spot spot, but we’ll get to him in a little bit. My number five spot simply because of age when this came out. 7th woods, 14 years old when his best high school mixtape came out. It has to date 16 million views on YouTube. This dude at 14 years old was putting seniors in the rim. He was crossing them up and he was making it look simple while doing it. I think 7th woods obviously didn’t pan out the way that he might have wanted it to, but Hab, as the youngest player on this list, had one of the best high school mixtapes of all time. He’s in my top five with the five spot too low.
Jimmy Watkins: Seventh woods is number two on my list. He’s not only is he 14, looking like a man amongst boys. One of my favorite things, I meant to mention this on the top One of my favorite things about hoop mixtapes. Another reason they’re getting worse is that all the great high school players now go to all these academies where they play against other great high school players. What makes a great hoop mixtape is when a future superstar is playing against seventh period dudes. Some dudes who are gonna Be accountants very soon and they run into an NBA esque athlete. 7th Wood is not an NBA basketball player. Actually when I was watching this earlier today I was looking at his like crossover in some of these videos and I’m just like that handle is loose as hell. I know you’re 14, but like that’s getting picked. That’s getting picked in a couple years for sure. But I mean the bounce, the power with which he was dunking at 14 again there’s can’t overstate the fact just the randos that he’s playing with in some of these clips, it makes it so much more enjoyable. They have no chance. It increases the ceiling of your highlights. You want, if you want to make the argument that it’s quote unquote less impressive that he’s hooping against these kids who are not are going to go pro some other than sports, fine. It’s more entertaining to me and I think the fact that 7th woods was a total bust as a recruit adds to the lore. Like I really think you can make the case that seventh woods recruiting rating was artificially inflated by this video, this four or five minute video that existed on YouTube.
Ethan Sands: I’m sorry, I’m sorry, Jimmy. It’s not even four or five minutes. It’s two and a half minutes.
Jimmy Watkins: There you go, there you go. That’s like, it’s like 160 seconds, 150 seconds of footage that got this guy a full ride scholarship to North Carolina. And the dude never scored more than five points per game in college even after transferring to South Carolina. It’s a thing of beauty. 7th woods is one of the faces of hoop Mixtape.
Ethan Sands: Well Jimmy, even when he transferred to Morgan State after transferring from South Carolina, he averaged 4.7 points a game. So to your point, I, I just.
Jimmy Watkins: Think the NIL deals were crazy though.
Ethan Sands: Oh my goodness. Could you imagine some of these guys with nil like that would be insane like that to me. I think they had to wait a little bit because the stardom of some of these players was simply through the roof. Obviously we’re going to get through this list and there are some guys on my list that automatically would have had nil. Obviously we mentioned Austin Rivers and I’m just going to get into this. He’s my number four spot for this list. Because of, for me what makes a great hoop mixtape is the music, the editing, interactions with the fans and also just how you showcase your abilities. Right. And whatever that is, whether that’s shooting, whether that’s dunking, whether that’s dribbling. He was doing it all right. And obviously you knew the river’s last name. So the pressure behind it and he was not shying away from any of that. Jimmy, you quoted one of the famous lines from the beginning of his mixtape like, I’mma go off. I’mma go off right now. And then also even before that in his mixtape, he says, showtime, baby. Like you understand how much confidence you had to have knowing your father is Doc Rivers and still being able to put on a show on a nightly basis. Also, since I’m giving the stats on these YouTube videos from 14 years ago, Austin Rivers mixtape now has 1.6 million views. Obviously much less than 7th woods video because he was a 14 year old. But Austin Rivers does, in my book, have a top five hoop mixtape of all time. Who’s your number four spot, Jimmy?
Jimmy Watkins: I think I’m not even know if I get my number five. I’ll give two real quick. My number four. This one will be very controversial. John Wall. I have John Wall fourth. I think the John Wall mixtape’s overrated. It’s just power dunks and. And what else?
Ethan Sands: 360 lays. That’s cool.
Jimmy Watkins: I saw him do it in the NBA. I, I don’t know. I, I am a little bit desensitized to the John Wall mixtape. Of course he’s an insane athlete. Of course he’s a super fun basketball player to watch. I just think some of these, I had more fun watching some of these other ones. He’s in my top five, by the way. I didn’t, I didn’t make him in. Thought he’s an honorable mention or anything. Top four even. But I, I think seventh woods, due to the lore, the nobodies that he’s playing with is more than impressive. We’ll get to, we’ll get to my number one and number three, I also have my number five, Brandon Jennings, way ahead of his time. The thing about Brandon Jennings that is innovative with the hoop mixtape, the man is just splashing threes from 30ft away in every other clip. And this was mid 2000s when he was in high school, like, or maybe mid 2000, early 2010s, late 2000s. This was before Steph, before every kid at the gym was trying to shoot 30 foot threes. Brandon Jennings put him in his nick. Stand that. There’s not a ton. You look across most of these. Not a ton of jump shots going to these. A lot of crossovers and dunks Brandon Jennings has. He’s a lefty, so it’s aesthetically pleasing. I always liked the rhythm to his jumper. I’ve always, I always liked his game aesthetically. You go back, he’s got the dunks, he’s got the pass. He has a crazy like Spider man extendo arm scoop shot that I don’t know how he gets it off about the three minute mark or something like that. And he’s, he was a small player in the NBA, but you could see in high school, like shorter than all these dudes. I give huge points to the small dudes because I think that’s just so much fun to watch them cook.
Ethan Sands: Well, I’m, I’m going to just say that since we’re already kind of spoiling some of our list. John Wall is number two on my list just because of how much notoriety he gained from that and obviously going to Kentucky and becoming the guy when you first get there, being a major portion of how boogie cousins, DeMarcus cousins became the player that he is from watching John Wall and his work ethic. Like to see somebody so hungry at that age and also just knowing on a nightly basis whatever John Wall was going to do, it was going to be a show. I think that’s also a part of it. And he has almost four minutes of content on YouTube. And 16 years ago this video was published, but it now has 10 million views on the tube. And I just think he’s one of the best high school mixtapes of all time. He’s not my number one. He’s one of the best high school.
Jimmy Watkins: Players of all time. But I think his NBA highlights are better than his high school highlights.
Ethan Sands: Isn’t that crazy though? Because he was the same thing in the NBA that he was doing in high school. Like, sorry, it didn’t matter. To Jimmy’s point, it didn’t matter if you were playing some of the top prospects in high school or some of some guys that were about to go to gym class like he was doing against NBA players, against players that were getting paid more money than him. And we can have a whole different podcast or a debate about who was the best point guard in the NBA When John Wall first got there with the Wizards, his first three, four years, there’s an argument for John Wall was a top three point guard in the league. Right? So, and I don’t, I don’t want to hear no flack on that. That’s just a fact. But we can, we can talk about it too. But I just think John Wall, as McSay has to be up there one because of his success in the NBA, but also because of just his competition level and what he was able to do on a nightly basis. But going into my number three spot, this might be a little bit of a surprise. This one. The editing took me away when I first watched it because it felt like every crossover was mixed in or hit with the beat. It felt like every time a player hit the floor because he was getting dropped by this player, it was on beat. It was so aesthetically pleasing, but it was still a little bit old school at this point in my lifetime. Marcus Levett, a player who ended up going to St. John’s over Memphis, Illinois, DePaul, Pittsburgh, UNLV, Kansas and San Diego State. This is a guy who looked like a. If you were going up against them defensively, you are going to have a horrible night because you were going to end up with either a hand on the floor, two knees on the floor, or something was hitting the floor that night because he was going to put you in a spin cycle, a crossover, or go in between your legs. Before Trae Young made it popular. I just think this guy had some of the best handles in high school and his mixtape is always going to be one of my favorites. That’s why it’s in my top three. It got posted 12 years ago and is up to 9 million views on YouTube.
Jimmy Watkins: Not on my list, but a great choice. Number three, Zion. For me, this is my one big guy exception. Another dude that he just levitates, man. And for him in particular, him playing against some of these South Carolina private school kids. There’s a famous clip of Zion standing next to like the doofy looking white kid. The entertainment, entertainment value on that stuff. Like just have the kids in the background, the crowd shots for Zion where they’re like, what are we. What is that an alien? Is that an alien that just did that? It, I, I just think that it’s another reminder, like this guy’s NBA career is so depressing. The injuries are so depressing because what he, what he could have been, what he was athletically at his peak, we have, I really don’t think we have ever seen it before. The strength, the power, the, the quick twitch combined with those things that his size, the way he could move. He was a great passer. His brand of power dunking is a completely different level for me. And he’s like, I feel like he’s one of like the last bastions, like around his draft class we start getting a little bit more professionalized. But his still feels like it’s got the old Classic feel to it. And my God, what an athlete. He’s the one of the best jumpers I’ve ever seen. The force with which he dunks everything is. Is unbelievable. And these kids just don’t have a chance. It’s awesome.
Ethan Sands: Except for that one kid that wanted to guard Scion. While you were talking, Jimmy, I was trying to figure out what that dude’s name was. And I can’t pull it up right now, but I owe him all the respect in the world. I don’t know who the hell that kid was, but willingly guarding Zion in high school while Zion was the number one player in the country. Take some big cojones and he’s got them so good on him. But I absolutely. The only reason Zion is not in my top five is because I am not putting a big guy in my top five based on just who I liked watching. But you said it perfectly. Jimmy. Levitating, floating. He’s literally doing 360 windmills and it feels like he’s in the air forever. But we both given our number two selections already. I had John Waugh. I want to get into this number one pick. And Jimmy, I have a feeling we have the same person. So I’m going to let you go first because I would talk for hours about this mixtape just because of where I’m from. And we’ll get into that in a little bit.
Jimmy Watkins: It’s not close to Takeel Carr. He’s five foot six. He can dunk. The maybe the greatest high school mixtape moment of all time is when a kill car is running on a. On a. Someone else has a fast break. Kill car’s trailing the play. They pass it to the biggest dude on the court in a kill card. Two hand. Two hand packs that off the glass. He packs it off the glass. And it’s amazing. It’s. It’s amazing. It’s amazing. Everything he does is amazing. Independent of being 5 foot 6 inches tall. Independent of it. But the fact that he is 5ft 6 inches tall makes it even better. The ball handling. The ball handling is. It will break your brain. The quickness with which this guy can change directions, the different moves. He’s hot sauce in a. In a smaller package. Seriously. My friends and I followed this man’s high school recruitment like he was going to our alma mater. I could not wait for a keel car. He never really made it to the D1 stage. He had like brief cups of coffee with G league teams, which I would pay decent money to find those highlights on the Internet with the Delaware 87ers and the Canton Charge. I didn’t know. In my own backyard, in my own backyard, I could have watched AQ car play basketball. I don’t know what kind of tick he was getting, but just one of the most entertaining highlight reels in any sport you will ever see. It’s below the rim. It’s above the rim. There are a wake of bodies there. There is a pile of bodies in this man’s wake at every, every time he dribbles up the court, people are falling left and right. Your eye, it’s like a tennis match on, on, on crack. Your eyes can’t keep up with the ball. He’s the best at this. Any conversation that I hear people talking about high school mixtapes, I say his name. He’s the best.
Ethan Sands: Jimmy said it beautifully there. And I cannot get enough of talking about this mixtape personally because I am from Baltimore, Maryland. His nickname is Crime Stopper because the crime in Baltimore would legitimately stop because they would be watching the basketball game, right? And I don’t think you guys understand like all the movies where you guys see like all the basketball player, the football player, the star of whatever, see all, you’re good, don’t mess with him. He’s got a future. Get out of the hood. Blah, blah, blah, blah. That was a kill car. Like a kill car was the man at Patterson High School, right? And understanding what he meant not only for the community, but what he meant solely for the state of Maryland, right? And for him, he obviously was initially committed to, I believe it was Seton hall and then ended up just going to play for the Delaware 87ers. As Jimmy had mentioned, I was never in the arena for these games, but you would hear about them miles and miles away, days after they happen, right? And you got the sense of, well, where can I watch it? Where can I see it? And then you would wait for this compilation to be put together because it was a beautiful spectacle of what true athleticism looks like. And as someone who was never tall, I was like, well, maybe I can’t play basketball. Because if he’s five foot six and dunking on seven footers and pinning blocks two handed against the packboard, maybe, just maybe I have a shot doing so. Like the motivation factor that he gave to youth, generations of Hoopers, it has to be steady, right? And to this day he’s still playing, trying to get a shot and all these things. But that video on YouTube, which was posted 13 years ago has 10 million views on YouTube, right? And I don’t Even think that’s indicative of how great it was at the time. And also just if you watch the video, which I implore you to go do, go watch the video after this, go watch all of these guys videos afterwards. But first frame that you see of a kill car is him with his family on the doorstep of his house, right? Or his former house or whatever in the city. Coming from nothing or trying to build your family up is his story. Ball is life, hoops mixtape, whoever. Like you had to get it out of the mud. You couldn’t pay for these people to come and show up to your game and get you the publicity that you needed. You had to earn it, right? And a kill car is one of the best, is the best hoops mixtape of all time. And he earned everything that he has. And I hope that he continues to thrive wherever he might be. But I just think this is clear cut. We have talked about how great all these other hoop mixtapes were. We talked about the honorable mentions. A kill car, hands down, 5 foot 6 has the best hoop mixtape of all time.
Jimmy Watkins: Kid, can we just acknowledge like he’s 5 6, he can dunk in these videos. Nate Robinson won the dunk contest basically for being 5 9. He missed 70 dunks. And we still gave Nate Robinson the dunk contest champ because he’s small. Spud Web, same deal. Impressive that they could do that at kill cars. 56 in high school, Duncan. I also just looked up his Instagram today. Easy follow also followed by Drake. And I see, I guess he’s still playing some sort of basketball as you allude to Ethan. Like, I mean, I’m gonna spend at least a half hour tonight seeing what he’s up to now. And that’s what he was doing in high school. What’s he learned since then?
Ethan Sands: So as we mentioned and as we kind of come full circle, NBA careers, you do not have to define legacies. They can help, obviously. And obviously financially, they do always help. But sometimes your legacy can be defined in high school. Some of these guys peaked in high school, right? And that’s kind of the the difference between where people’s lives can go. John Waugh didn’t have the career that he wanted to because of injuries, because of trying to be the man in different places, even though that wasn’t his role anymore. So still, I think looking back and just gaining excitement based on the past, but also getting excitement for the future season for the 2025, 2026 season is important because there are highlights that circulate the NBA today that still are jaw dropping that are still keeping you captivated. And as much as we talked about on the last podcast that the NBA could be considered by Adam Silver to be a highlight driven league, there’s so much more to it than that, right? And one of my favorite highlights from Donovan Mitchell’s career are some of his passes going from corner to corner or zipping it from the wing to the corner which barely anybody is capable of doing and then finding the open man and that person knocking down the shot. It’s not necessarily the ankle breakers or the dunk over Christophs Porzingis, but small things that sometimes you miss. And I think that’s important for everybody to understand that box score watching can only be so fun. Actually tuning into these games, tuning into the WNBA playoffs is exciting as well. That’s another way that I’m feeding my my it’s worth for hoops at this point in the summer, especially waiting for training camp and for the preseason to roll around come late this month, early next month.
Jimmy Watkins: I just had the thought as we’re talking about this. Did Akil Carr contribute to this problem? Did a kill car turn the plant the seed for Adam Silver to call the NBA I highlight league? I would actually does Adam Silver know who a keel car is? Does he know ball to that level? Would be an interesting question, but I’m thinking like hoop mixtape definitely raised a generation of basketball highlight watchers instead of basketball, you know, play by play followers, you know, like watching a full game. Is this where is this where it started? I don’t know.
Ethan Sands: Maybe you’re right because I definitely grew my love in this game watching these highlights. But then I also wanted to go see these players in person. I also wanted to see what other parts of their game and as you mentioned earlier Jimmy, how do they stack up against other competition of their level. The one of the best parts about Sharif Cooper’s highlights is he was going up against some of these other NBA players. Now Sharif Cooper was giving some of these players buckets. And Jimmy, you also mentioned because we did have a more old school lift, the new school guys like the Boozer twins that are committed to Duke going to be great because of their lineage and how they’ve dominated the high school stage but also dominated in the AAU stage, winning national championships already and also playing in FIBA and winning gold medals that way too. But you wouldn’t know that if you only watched their highlights, right? You have to do a little bit more digging, a little bit more research and I don’t want this game to turn into a highlight driven sport one because that means people are not going to want to read our articles as much, Jimmy. And I don’t want that or listen to our podcast because they’re like, oh well, I can just go watch the highlights. No, because we go into more minutiae and nuanced conversations that you only will understand if you watch the full length of these games.
Jimmy Watkins: I don’t even know if that’s necessarily true. I feel like the highlight league stuff, I feel like people consume a ton of basketball content and then they only need to see the highlights and then people like us or to larger extent, you know, like the Ringer podcast verse, your Zach Lowe, your Bill Simms is your hoop collective guys over at espn. That’s where they fill in the blanks. It’s a strange, it’s a strange ecosystem and I wish more people would actually consume product for what it is because it’s awesome. If you really love, if you love basketball to the extent where you’re willing to watch all these highlights and you’re willing to listen to all these podcasts, it’s hard for me to square that you also aren’t willing to sit down and watch two hours of the game because there are so many cool nuances. But then the game that you don’t see in the highlights, but that seems to be where we are and I don’t love it. But I’ll take the views.
Ethan Sands: I’ll take the views too, Jimmy. Especially in the summertime when our views are feel like the NBA, they’re dropping. I’m waiting for them for the regular season to come back and our numbers start to go back up and people start to tune in to us again, so they get our Cavs and NBA takes. Because as much as we want to tell you guys all about the Cavs and we will be doing that during the regular season and throughout the playoffs, we do want to give you NBA content as well when it comes to this season as the Eastern Conference is going to be a little shaky. Going to get more news on that. The Western Conference is going to be super competitive. You’re going to get more news on that as well. So I know this is the summertime, I know you might not have even listened to this far into the podcast, but if you did, thanks for sticking with us. Thanks for sticking with us throughout the summer and get ready for a great season. We’re still going to come to you five days a week, so don’t miss anything. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wand and Gold Talk podcast, but remember to become the Chaos Insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. You want to let us know what your top five is or who you think has the best hoop mixtape of all time? Send it over to Subtext. Or let’s argue, let’s talk about it. Or let me just praise my guy. Kill Corey a little bit more. To do all of that, sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through Subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.