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Before the album came out this summer, I had a fiery conversation with them for GQ where they staked their claim as the best rap duo out there and aired out all outstanding beefs (and revealed some new ones); that interview became the de facto start to the year’s most engaging album rollout. Since we last talked, they’ve solidified their status as having the best rap album of the year, headlined a nationwide tour big enough to bring the reclusive Kendrick Lamar out for a cameo, and made history as the first rappers to perform at the Vatican. Next up? Pursuing their first-ever Grammy. GQ: One thing that we heard this year was a lot of people were really into the rollout, especially the intention behind it. But the funny thing is that the way you rolled the album out was traditional, in a sense. But I think that speaks to a feeling that was missing, and you had to help restore it. Pusha T: You got to understand, we’re creating this music, but we’re also trying to really re-create the enthusiasm amongst ourselves. We got the enthusiasm, but we’re trying to see it and feel it in the world. I’m not getting up, going to 7-Eleven, picking up a mag, arguing with my man about somebody got three-and-a-half mics. Those touchpoints aren’t really out here like that anymore. People aren’t sitting down with Frazier. They’re not! They won’t do it, bro! They’re surprise-dropping the music so they don’t have to get no feedback on nothing. This is what they’ll do versus like, “Yo. Let’s put it on the table. We really standing on it.” People talk about standing on business. This is the best way to do it musically. And then it means that much more when you come out onstage and say “Album of the Year.” Pusha T: Exactly. When you talk about the nostalgia of hip-hop journalism, what it meant being hot in the streets, the chatter, the opinions, the lunch-table arguments, the barbershop arguments—that’s what the whole mindset of that rollout was about. In the midst of that, did you feel a sort of protectiveness over your brother? One thing that came up when we spoke last time was the foolishness that can surround the industry. Bringing him back into the fold, was there a sense of, I’m not going to bring you into a shit show? Pusha T: That was definitely my mentality. But I feel like in my heart, I was like, we are going to get everything due us. It’s got to look a certain way, be a certain way, feel a certain way. The trifecta of myself, my brother, and Pharrell…. There’s nobody else that we need musically to do what we got to do. Just our circle. People who are not with the agenda, I don’t want to be connected to it. Selfishly, I don’t want nothing to do with anyone. How about that? [Laughs.] That’s just what it is. Not to get too meta, but you got criticism for some interviews, like ours and others, about being confrontational [airing out grievances with the likes of Kanye and Travis Scott]. Some people would say that you’re stoking that to promote. Malice: Yeah, but look who’s saying that, though. Because on the other end of that spectrum, there are people who really see clearly that Pusha don’t lean on that kind of stuff. And look how long he sat on what has been going on. But that’s what they do on the other side. So they think that we play that over here, but nah, we don’t. And we don’t snitch and we don’t tell. Standing on it. Say what I had to say, and that’s it. Pusha T: You can’t let the journalism be a main focus of the rollout and you tiptoe around shit. I wasn’t going to come in and give you scenarios, and be tiptoeing around the stories. I’ll take the criticism, it’s fine. But never call me a liar. Because I never lie. I never lie. Lemme tell you something: I think lying’s for bitches. If you lie about shit, that’s because you’re scared of something, and I’m not scared of anything or anybody. So what I say is what I say. So take it back to this time last year. I’m sure you were probably a little bit frustrated with having this great body of work on deck, but bullshit label politics holding it up. But in a way, it’s like there’s a sense of divine timing here because this year is unfolding incredibly in a way that could have only unfolded with that series of events, right? Pusha T: It’s something that I feel like I’ve learned, and I’ve learned it a lot from watching my brother too. He doesn’t get ruffled by anything that happens. He goes with the flow of everything. I’ve never had that approach—man, I try to keep everything in line, in order. This is how it’s supposed to go. And with this particular project, man, I couldn’t have been more wrong in having that attitude. Malice: Well, I’ve always had the same approach he had. I learned this approach. I was taught this approach. In what ways did both of you come to learn that? Malice: Because life will hand you a bunch of curveballs and trying to be in control and manage everything can put you at your wit’s end—and then it still happens the way that it was meant to happen. So that’s just something that I learned in this 16-year absence for sure. Pusha, I’m picturing that classic video of you banging on the wall, yelling to drop “Numbers on the Boards.” I know you were doing that this time last year. Pusha T: No, for sure. Are you kidding me, man? And to think we had the heat. When we make it, we are extremely confident about it and eager to put it out. It’s all about letting people hear it. You know what I’m saying? And just getting yourself in the conversation and taking the critiques, the good with the bad. That’s the type of energy we thrive off of. It’s always competitive, but it’s always about hearing the opinions and just being like, you know, they might be a little right about that, or whatever the case may be. I just love to hear it all, but not being able to get it out, man, it’s stifling. We know what the hell we doing at all times. When it’s cooked, it’s cooked. And we know it’s cooked. There’s never extras and leftovers. It’s not a lot of going back and retinkering and retooling. I let Pharrell do that on production stuff. But as far as these raps go, no way. Can we talk about process a little? Pharrell was cooking up à la carte, right? I think you said this to Joe Budden, about how you have to sometimes tell Pharrell what you don’t want or to scale things back. What is that process like, to fine-tune everything, where the three of you have been working together for so long, but still chasing new highs? Pusha T: I think we find it’s a lot of different emotions that go into that process. But then you get into the stubbornness of knowing exactly what you want and not wanting to waver. I’m extremely passionate about hard-core, lyric-driven hip-hop. I think that’s where you show your skill set. I don’t think that ever goes out of style. And I don’t think a lot of people can do it with taste and swag. So if that’s not the target or the bull’s-eye—after song one, two, or three, I’m getting pissed. P’s like, “Nah, man, you need these colors.” I’m like, “Man, listen, you better get to it.” Sometimes we’ll be in there and P will be tinkering with something that we absolutely hate, but you sit back and you let him go through his process. While he’s going through his process, he’s also watching you and he’s knowing that you’re not moved, and he’ll find something or strike a chord that actually does make you move. And he’ll be like, “Oh, I got you.” Strip everything else down that he was doing and then hone in on that, and then he starts building again. Was there any song that made the cut that you remember going like that? Malice: “Mike Tyson Blow to the Face.” That’s my favorite track, I think—that or “P.O.V.,” which were two songs I believe Pusha almost cut. Malice: I started hearing whispers that that song was not going to be on it, and there was no way in the world I was going to let that happen. Pusha T: Aye man, players fuck up too. I believe the “P.O.V.” portion of it was a lot of production tinkering, and I was watching [Pharrell] battle himself, even with the switching of the beat on Malice’s verse. That beat switch is hard! Malice: And see, that speaks to what we’re saying about the process, because I was hot that the beat changed. When I write to a beat and flow, it’s like I’m married to it. It’s the canvas, it’s the foundation. It’s what I’m laying to, so I don’t want it changed later. But the response to [the switch] has been crazy so you have to trust Pharrell that he knows what he’s doing. When you guys describe it that way I can understand why you’re more reticent to rap on other producer’s beats now. Pusha T: I just don’t think everybody’s a producer. I think there’s a huge difference between beat makers and producers. There’s a level of cohesiveness that our fans are accustomed to in the raps, in the production, in the flow, and the marriage of it all. I don’t know if [other producers’] vision is as intricate. I mean, there’s a lot of people with dope beats out there, but there’s always been a big emphasis put on composition in dealing with Pharrell, even as far back as the Neptunes. So I think that has set us apart in all [our] albums. I think that’s what actually broke the Clipse through. A lot of talk this year has been about Malice especially coming back after so long and bodying pretty much every verse. You guys are going 50-50 on the album, I’d say— Pusha T: Oh really? 50-50? [Laughs.] There’s been a little 70-30, 80-20, from what I’ve been hearing. You’re building the framework for Gene to come in and body it. So I wanted Gene to talk about that process, from his point of view. Malice: What I think it is: As far as me and the verses, Pusha’s been the only one rapping all this time, to me, in lyric-driven hip-hop. So I think people do get taken aback a little bit when they understand that he has a brother and we come from the same school. But this has always been our setup. This isn’t new. Push would come in, usually he’ll do the first verse. Most times Push will make it to the studio before me, so it starts building from that point. I don’t mind being the cleanup man. Everyone’s calling it a comeback, but it’s not technically, because you were making your own music in between. What did you learn about yourself during that time as a solo artist? Malice: I can appreciate that question because I didn’t really start hearing how much people enjoyed my two solo projects until we were out doing interviews. But I definitely understand why it didn’t get the mainstream light. But I even feel that on those projects, I was rapping my best. What I learned about myself is what I was learning in life: my experiences, the inventory that I was taking on myself, the corrections that needed to be made. I just felt totally free to speak it. I wasn’t sharing a platform. I didn’t have to share anything. It’s just me, uninhibited, going crazy. It was definitely therapeutic. And then how do you apply that when you come back into the group? Malice: Because it’s applicable, period. Everything that I’ve learned, everything that I’ve experienced, and the fact that I’ve walked the walk that I walk makes me relatable. And it’s not like some strange doctrine that I’m talking about. People know me, they see me. They see me in my highs, they see me in my lows. They see me in my conflict. So if you know anything about me, you can’t say, That guy’s crazy. If you ever related to me, you can’t say, He’s off. You know who I am. You’ve been seeing who I am all this time. You’ve experienced my music, my art, so I’m definitely who you think I am. You also get to talk that shit again too. Malice: Oh man. When the album’s in the midst of coming out and people ask if there will be more, it feels like a crazy thing to ask because you guys are just putting this one out. But now that we’re at the end of the year, is there any trepidation to continuing with Clipse because this has gone so perfectly? Pusha T: No, I don’t think so. At the end of the day, the skill set is speaking volumes. Malice: It’d be so easy, man. It is not even about us trying to outdo the last thing we’ve done. It’s just so much opportunity. When people speak about the album, it is incredible because I’m hearing healing. I feel like they have lost the sense that this kind of intellect exists. Where have y’all been? And that’s not no kind of arrogance. It needs to be shared. Everybody needs to uplift each other. We heard from the beginning that the feeling has been restored, so it’s not like people weren’t aware of it. We just haven’t had it in so long and we’re bringing it to you. And I believe that there’s going to be more. Pusha T: There’s more music coming, man. Malice: How could we not, bro? One thing that got people really excited too was, it’s one thing for you guys to be back together, but the JID feature specifically was like, oh man, they’re collaborating again now too? Malice: Shout out, JID. Pusha T: Yeah, shout out, JID, man. Malice: Because he raps. Pusha T: He raps, man. Those who do have the skill set—again, we find the enjoyment in that. Steel sharpens steel? Pusha T: Yeah, man. You find a competitive spirit, but you also just find that love of hip-hop that we know, when this was only the criteria. Artists like JID take it to a time where you had to know how to rap to be on a song. In addition to Clipse, you were on a solo journey. When you and I talked around It’s Almost Dry, it was about how you felt you were in the midst of perfecting your style and becoming a perfectly honed version of yourself. Is that solo evolution still continuing? Pusha T: Yeah, I think you can’t let it go. You threw some projects out there. A DJ Drama mixtape, Madlib album.… Pusha T: I’d love to do it all. Specifically Drama. But, man, it’s been therapeutic to be doing the Clipse. You mentioned all the solo stuff, but it’s like a weight lifted off my shoulder. And I feel like with my solo projects, it was always drama. Being able to take a step back from it and be with my brother.… Malice: [Laughs.] It still bled over. It still bled over. Pusha T: Yeah, it bleeds over. But be with my brother and create from a different mindset. I feel like my solo mindset was just all war. With Clipse, you tap into those things, but you get to tap into other emotions as well. I feel like other people would describe it differently and say being solo means I can talk about more things by myself. But it’s interesting that being with your brother opens you up to talk about more—“Birds” gets a lot of attention but even on songs like “All Things Considered,” you’re talking about miscarriage and wanting to have another child. You’re getting rawer in ways that we haven’t really heard you before. Malice: We’ve been an open book. We talk about everything concerning us and things that we think our fans want to hear, and anything that lends itself to good music and good art. Pusha T: And truth. Malice: Because we don’t make a record and hide behind it. We get in front of it. We talk to people like yourself and let you look at it and let you pick it apart. But either way we face it. We talked about the divine timing of the release. When people tried to crash that date, did it spoil the moment? Malice: Listen, everybody has a right to do what they do. Whatever you have the power to do, whatever tools you have to utilize. That goes for everybody, even us. Let’s just play and see what it is. We embrace it all and love it all. Ain’t no sitting around moping and wishing—nah, let’s rock. Pusha T: You cheat. We cheat. Everybody cheats. Fuck it. They had the bots swarming, the tour data, [narratives about the tour not selling]…. Pusha T: Lemme tell you something. That’s corny. If you knew what I thought about botting, you wouldn’t even do that to me. Bro, what? You know how fire the Let God Sort Em Out tour was? I do, I went. And lemme tell you, I live here in LA now, but I had FOMO not being in New York [for the tour] because I’m used to your listenings in New York being movies. And you guys just have a very East Coast energy. Then come to find out, the LA show was harder. Why was “Virginia” not in the set list at first? New York people told me that it wasn’t, but then when you guys did it in LA, I was going crazy. Malice: We started that when we did it at home, right? We were just saying, We have to do “Virginia” at home [in Virginia]. Pusha T: Yeah, we just waited [until that tour stop]. Malice: But it’s a mainstay everywhere. Honestly, that set list could have gone six or seven more songs for me. I needed “Hello New World.” I needed “Ride Around Shining.” I needed “E.B.I.T.D.A.” Pusha T: Let me tell you a problem we have that we discuss when it comes to the set list. We like to say the fans are 16 to 60. Sometimes skews a little younger, sometimes skews a little higher. And there are many different points at when people got introduced to Clipse. You got some people from ’02. Some people started in 2010. Some people who started 2024, 2023. Collectively, you want everybody to be in unison with their energy. I watch the crowd divide in half when “Momma I’m So Sorry” comes on and you can see who was there in ’06 and you can see who’s getting FOMO. So we’re fighting a lot of different battles in trying to maintain that energy. I’d seen some videos of you guys performing “Birds” [a wrenching tribute to their late parents], and going in, I was like, Oh man, this is going to be heavy. But at the show it felt not as heavy as listening to the actual song. It felt more cathartic almost. Pusha T: It is definitely a proud moment. But every night someone cries. Malice: Every night a lot of people cry. Pusha T: It’s a major moment in the set list where we feel like we got everybody’s attention and everybody can relate whether they’ve been through it, whether they’re feeling like that day could be coming. You see parents with kids, feeling it. Malice: I’m hearing a lot of people saying that it’s helped them to process their grief. And I think just us putting it on display, seeing that you get through it and life continues to go on and it’s something that everybody goes through. To be able to talk about it and give language to it helps a lot of people. How are you guys feeling about going into awards season? The Grammy conversation gets split among hip-hop; sometimes people are like, do we want that validation, does it matter? Malice: You got to understand, to us, we have already been validated with our art form and the music that we put out. So to be able to walk it into a Grammy nomination, you got to first have the product, then you connect to the plug. You know what I’m saying? I’m hearing buzz for beyond the rap categories too. Pusha T: Man, I’m hearing it. Bringing home that hardware would mean everything. We going for it. We made the album, we looked at it, like, this is that strong. We need to take something home for this. So when the album dropped and the response is crazy, did you get the “My bad” text from Hov? Pusha T: Nah, we didn’t get that text. There’s always time for a Hov verse, in our eyes. Whether he looks at it like that or not, that’s just how we think. We make music on such a level that we’ll always be able to find one and be like, “Hey man, this one for you.” How are you guys feeling about the state of rap overall? It’s been an interesting year. There’s a lot of different surges and different dramas and tensions and also boredom. How does it feel in 2025 looking out from it, especially when you guys can be so hermetically sealed and just watching it play out? Malice: I think it’s great for us. Pusha T: Yeah, I think it’s great for us, but I think we also have blinders on right now to everything that does not root itself in the skill set. So some shit is fun, it’s cool, but when it come to this, it’s like, man, this is speaking volumes over everything. Let God Sort Em Out is speaking volumes over everything to me. I’m watching people, I’m watching artists, people now care about the rollout. Now they want to sit down. Malice: And the curtain’s been pulled back. The fans now know what they ain’t been getting. Pusha T: And they know the tricks of it all. They see it all, they hear it all. They know what’s up. The people are saying next time Stove got to get a full verse with you guys. Pusha T: I mean, listen, it’s whatever with Stove. Malice: If it leaves you wanting more, then we did it right. Pusha T: I think that him doing the hook was a great showcase too; it shows how much we think of him. And I think it got across to the public, like, this is the guy who made that. That may be hook of the year, bro. If not, it’s close. I also want to talk about some of your endeavors outside of music too. Malice, I heard you’ve been thinking about wanting to start a podcast. Malice: Yeah, definitely. That’s funny, because you’re a meme this year for being stone-faced during a bunch of interviews and stuff. Malice: So, I like talking about what I like talking about. And just seeing the people, the things that they are in need of, that we are all in need of—I see it in my comments, I see it in the DMs, things that I’ve spoken to that lit up the listener. And they want to hear more of it. And I have tons of information that I cannot die with it in me. So I just want to share more. A lot of people talk about Malice and faith because you’ve been very vocal about it, but I wondered if, Pusha, you could speak about your faith a little bit too. You are faith-driven as well, it just doesn’t come up as often, but like we said at the beginning, there’s a divine timing that you have to submit to and start to learn and accept. Pusha T: I feel like we came up very faith-based. Kids in church, kids in Sunday school, had to go. I don’t speak about it as much. I’m also not as well-versed. But I know who’s responsible for it all. Malice: And anytime my nephew is praying for me and saying grace and all of that. I was going to ask about Big Brixx [Nigel Brixx Thornton, Pusha T’s son]. How’s fatherhood treating you these days? Pusha T: Oh man, it is the best thing. Malice: You don’t see the change in him? What’s the change? Malice: Oh man, listen, first of all, one of the things is when we’re in the studio, he’s ready to get out of the studio, quick, and get to Nige. Even being on the road, he’s ready to get off the road and get to Nige. He’s a different man. Pusha T: Not being home is the biggest struggle. Does that impact the creative process at all? I would imagine it gives you better drive, right? Malice: He just said this to me the other day, all this is for Nige and his wife. And that’s who he comes out here and works for and that’s where his mindset is, for sure. Is there a difference in your music now from when you didn’t have that family center grounding you and driving you? Pusha T: No, I don’t think it’s a difference. I think I’m just more intentional about everything. You don’t have to make the mistakes. You can just be very intentional about everything and that’s all it is. Focus. Do you ever ask your brother for fatherly advice now since he’s been through it already? Pusha T: I haven’t. I probably should though. I don’t know how good of a parent I am. I reward for bad shit and all type of shit. I’m crazy. I’m not home a lot, so it’s like when it comes to reprimanding and all of that, I’m not the one. Malice: He does great, man. Very inspiring. Does Nigel have an understanding of what you do yet? Pusha T: One thousand percent. Oh my God, man. Are you kidding me? Yes. He has a clear understanding [Shows a video of Nigel rapping Malice’s verse on “P.O.V.”]. Ah, man, that’s a great note to end on. So we got some new stuff coming soon. Clipse music, Pusha solo music? Malice, solo music? Clip is loaded? Pusha T: Clip’s loaded. Malice: And one in the head. Frazier Tharpe is GQ’s senior associate editor. This interview has been condensed and edited from a video you can see here. A version of this story originally appeared in the December 2025/January 2026 issue of GQ with the title “Clipse: Rappers of the Year”. PRODUCTION CREDITS: Portfolio by Tyrell Hampton Styled by George Cortina Hair by Teddy Charles Skin by Holly Silius using Cosrx Tailoring by Yelena Travkina Set design by Heath Mattioli Produced by Camp Productions Photographed on location at Chateau Marmont
