CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins discuss the Cavs’ offseason preparations and expectations for the upcoming season. while highlighting the significance of two player-led minicamps, most recently in New York.
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Takeaways:
Cavs Held Another Player-Led Minicamp
The Cavs players held another minicamp in New York, which followed a team-wide mini-camp in Los Angeles. The most recent camp was reportedly attended by every available player, aside from the injured, showcasing a strong commitment to team chemistry ahead of a pivotal season. Furthermore, Mitchell extended a personal invitation to younger players Tyrese Proctor, Luke Travers, and Nae’Qwan Tomlin to train with him at his home. These sessions included on-field workouts on his personal turf field and bonding activities like attending a Mets game, underscoring Mitchell’s effort to instill a professional work ethic and build relationships across the entire roster.
Playoff Performance, Not Regular Season Wins, Is the Ultimate Benchmark
There is a clear consensus that the upcoming season’s success will be measured exclusively by the team’s postseason performance. A fan sentiment shared on the podcast suggests that even a high-win regular season in the upper 50s would be meaningless if the team fails in the playoffs. The expectation is that the Cavaliers must, at a minimum, reach the Eastern Conference Finals. Anything short of that benchmark is predicted to result in “major changes” during the following offseason, establishing a high-stakes, “prove it” narrative for the team from the outset.
Health and a Specific Player Formula Are Keys to Success
The hosts identified health as the single most important factor for the Cavaliers’ success, noting the team is the most talented in the East when fully healthy. Beyond health, a specific formula was proposed for maximizing the team’s potential: Donovan Mitchell serving as the primary clutch option, Darius Garland (upon his return from toe surgery) commanding the highest usage rate to orchestrate the offense, and Evan Mobley ascending to become the team’s best overall player. Last season, Mitchell led in usage (29.8%) during the regular season followed by Garland (26.5%) and Mobley (22.6%); the discussion centered on how optimizing these roles and increasing Mobley’s involvement could unlock a new level for the team.
Integrating De’Andre Hunter is a Top Priority
A major point of emphasis for the upcoming training camp is the full integration of forward DeAndre Hunter. Acquired at last season’s trade deadline, Hunter is considered the most important player on the roster outside of the core four. The hosts stressed the need for a “big training camp project” focused on getting Hunter comfortable and feeling a sense of ownership within the offense. This includes experimenting with him in various lineups to determine how he can best contribute, such as driving offense with the second unit or initiating plays alongside Evan Mobley when Darius Garland is off the floor.
Mitchell and Mobley Both Have Paths to the MVP Conversation
With Darius Garland sidelined to start the season, a unique opportunity arises for both Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley to generate MVP buzz. Mitchell, who finished fifth in MVP voting last year, will naturally have more on-ball responsibilities, potentially boosting his stats and case early on. Concurrently, the hosts argued this is the ideal time to “force feed” Evan Mobley, increasing his offensive workload to see if he can make a significant leap in production and assert himself as the team’s best player. However, it was also noted that the team’s recent playoff shortcomings might create a “wait and see” perception among national voters, making it a high barrier for either player to enter the top tier of the MVP race.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me Today, Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com’s columnist. And we are getting into some news surrounding the Cleveland Cavaliers. Some preparation heading into training camp. Obviously we’ve already discussed that the Cavs held a minor mini camp in Los Angeles where they had all but three players attend in LA to get workouts together, to get in some work on the beach, to get in the gym, all these things. Then we are now hearing that is being reported that Donovan Mitchell led a New York minicamp where he had players come together. It seemed like every player that was available was in attendance at this pre training camp minicamp. Also after that, Donovan Mitchell allowed Tyrese Proctor, Luke Travers and Naquan Tomlin, three of the younger cats on this team, to come to his home and work out with him, get in a little bit of a gym session in when it comes to on field workouts and all of these things, rather than being on the court itself himself to try and show them how important he thinks they’re going to be for this coming season. One and two, just the work ethic that is required to get to the next level, to get to the next stage of their career. And also to me, just showcasing that Donovan Mitchell does not think that any player is more important than another and trying to showcase that to the NBA, to the Cavs and to the media and especially. So I want to get into this real quick because there is an importance in the minicamps coming into this season, especially when we remember that last year the Cavs lost all four of their preseason games before winning 64 games in the regular season. Jimmy, many camps coming off of a season where they lost in the second round to the Indiana Pacers and it was a series where we look back and we see that there was a lot of work to have been done behind the scenes. Whether that’s conditioning, whether that’s in the weight room, whether that’s just getting on the same page as one another and understanding what this team needed for this Cavs team to have had two minicamps, one in la, one in New York. What does that mean to you? How important do you think that is and does that stick out to you? Because we weren’t hearing these kind of things last year. There might have been one, but two might be a little bit extra.
Jimmy Watkins: I think this is kind of standard, good superstar operating procedure, even if we don’t always hear about this stuff Guys are getting together during the off season, even if it’s for competitive pickup runs. I don’t know what a minicamp really looks like in, in this regard. With Donovan having guys, I would assume it’s something like an open gym run, which is still good. Every live rep counts. But I think that it’s good. It’s a good leadership move on Donovan’s part. I think it’s good for fringe roster guys like Luke Travers, Naquan Tomlin, Tyrese Proctor. To see, like you said to, to watch a guy like Donovan Mitchell, even in this relatively informal setting. What does warmup look like? How does he carry himself throughout a drill? If they’re doing drills, is there something, you know, talk to these guys about during the off season? Even again during a summer pickup run? When you’re playing pickup as a, as an NBA player, you can do whatever you want so you can be intentional about doing things that, that you want to try in a game. Picking their brain about that. I think that all matters to some degree. But I think the real work starts with, with training camp. And even for a team like this that has been together for so long, you can tweak philosophies. You could try to. If you’re going to try to set a, a physical toughness tone. That might start in training camp, but this is going to be one in many steps toward the Cavs just looking up their watch and going, when can we start playing playoff games? Now it’s when can we start playing regular season games? But if we’re saying the regular season doesn’t mean anything, that we can’t change any perceptions about, about the Cavs during the regular season, then a minicamp’s even a blip on that radar.
Ethan Sands: There’s a little bit extra on top of this. Obviously they were lifting on Donovan’s Louisville inspired field in his backyard where he has his big cardinal on the turf field that he has, and all these things like they were getting in lifting drills and workouts and kind of field work more than being on the court when they got to his house. At least that’s what we were able to see via social media and some pictures by the Cavs. But I also got to see that Donovan took Luke Travers and these guys to the Mets game afterwards to like show that there is a balance. There is a necessity for that, especially during the summer. And I think that’s important when it comes to trying to showcase how to maintain your bodies, how to maintain this work life balance, even while being multimillionaires. And professionals because still this is a job for them and you have to be able to work through it without getting burnt out. Because that’s the thing that still does happen for NBA players. But Jimmy, you mentioned it a little bit there. Training camp media day. We are now two weeks away from both of those as we record this podcast. I do think that everybody’s getting this little itch to get back on the court. Everybody’s getting this little itch for like writing and reporting as there’s kind of these players like Larry Nance Jr. And Donovan Mitchell and Max Schavy these camps at the later end of the summer trying to get themselves ramped up before showing their faces at media day on the 29th and then heading over to IMG Academy on the 30th. I asked our subtexters, Jimmy, what their expectations were for this Cavs team for this season when it comes to the regular season, especially in there were some interesting responses because of how excited some of these subtexts are, but also because there are subtext subscribers. They’re in the know of everything that we’ve been talking about all summer and some of them are also skeptical about what has happened over the last couple of years when it comes to the playoffs. And obviously me and Jimmy and Chris, when he returns from pto, will give our regular season predictions and end of season predictions for this COWS team. But that’ll be closer to media day. One of the subtext subscribers says, I think the Cavs will have a very good regular season but not match the win total of last year. I think they’ll be in the upper 50s in wins and battle New York for the top seed. Everyone knows this upcoming season isn’t about regular season wins, but just what happens in the playoffs. If the Cavs don’t at least make the conference finals, there will be major changes made this offseason. That sounds very familiar to some of the things we’ve been saying this offseason. Jimmy, I wanted to get your thoughts on what do you think the Cavs need to be able to have a successful regular season and getting into the playoffs with their best foot going forward? Because for me I feel like there’s this formula for the Cavs to be the best team possible and it’s Donovan Mitchell as their first option, Darius Garland having the most usage when he returns from injury, his toe surgery which has him sidelined for likely the beginning of the regular season, and Evan Mobley is their best player. Obviously there’s nuances to all of these things, but I Think that is the formula that the Cavs need to happen for this team to take the next step and also be as mature as necessary for this team to be where it needs to be come playoff time.
Jimmy Watkins: This is sort of a flippant answer, but I would say health. You got to get them ready for the playoffs. Sure we’ve had that conversation about maybe playing guys more in the regular season, but never at the expense of injuries. The Cavs are the most talented team in the east as long as they’re healthy. I think that remains the case. The Knicks are talented, but the Cavs have three all stars on their team. And you mentioned, you mentioned Evan. I think stabilizing Darius once he gets back is important. Letting him catch a rhythm. I would go back to the well of being an awesome defense and being able to maintain that. I think they’ll start because they’re frankly two of their more tackle defenders are going to be out for a little bit. Max Drew and Darius Garland. I think they’ll start pretty well on that end. Maintaining that identity and that energy. When Darius and Max come back, that will be something to watch. Another point that we’ve been talking about that I think is important for the team is integration of DeAndre Hunter into everything you do. He’s got to the core four, probably the most important player on this team and it was their big swing trade deadline last off season. Now you have a full training camp that’s, that’s a big training camp project, big minicamp project. Get DeAndre Hunter comfortable and caught up to speed and feeling like he has ownership of the offense. When he’s out there engaging him in, in every way and getting. I think we can have more conversations about getting him more looks with different lineups that you want to see with him in the playoffs. Last regular season after the 150 start, assuming the Cavs start strong again, there’s going to be a lot of experimentation I think from Kenny during the regular season. I think DeAndre Hunter should be a part of all that logo ball. They’ll see what lineups he works best with. Can he play with the second unit? Can he drive offense in the half court? Or him and DeAndre Hunter together without Darius Garland. Can they do enough initiating of offense when Darius is not out there? And maybe you mix in Evan Mobley there as well. You gotta look at all that stuff. But I do think the number one thing is health. Because as much as you want to say that the NBA is a sport where, you know, seven game series, the best team wins more More of the time we know the healthy how how often a healthy healthier team wins as well.
Ethan Sands: So Jimmy, what do you think about this formula that Darius needs to be the number one use his right player for when he returns from injury. Donovan needs to be the top option for the Cavs when it comes to clutch time and Evan Mobley has to be their best player overall. And obviously last season they were kind of close to this. Donovan led the team in usage. He was 29.8 usage percentage. Darius Garland had a 26.5 usage percentage in the regular season and Evan Mobley had a 22.6 usage percentage. I would want that to increase this coming season. But Jimmy, what do you think about this formula? Do you think that there is a perfect for new for the Cavs to have success?
Jimmy Watkins: I. I don’t know about numbers. I know that when the Cavs were rolling last year Darius Garland looked like an all star used to trade or not. I think he looked really good for long parts of of last season. So you want that if that means what he. Yeah, sure. If you want to intentionally give him more reps when he comes back. I think. I think that makes sense to get him feeling comfortable and then it stabilizes over time. Donovan is just naturally going to do a lot and it’s going to you know to start the season in particular. I think that’ll be a tricky thing for him to throttle down when once guys get back because he’s. He’s going to look good doing it. Here’s a thought for you. Donovan finished fifth in MVP voting last year. This year with Darius out to start the year more on ball reps for him, the Cavs are going to obviously stack regular season wins. Might be the best chance for him to build some MVP was in his career. I I think a lot of guys would say I don’t care if I win mvp. You hear the stars all the time. Donovan has said things like you know the whole I want to be a one of the faces of the league conversation that that he was having with Chris a couple playoffs ago. That’s me hints that he is interested and these kind of things and maybe it happens naturally if the Cavs have another great great season but they won 64 games last year and had a borderline historic point of personally it came in fifth so that that would be something to watch early on in the season. And I mean we’ve been saying for years now that Evan Moody’s the best be the best player on this team for the Castle win a Championship. But again, in terms of usage, you obviously want more opportunities for Evan Mobley. I don’t think he needs to be higher than the guards, but if he’s around 25%, that’d be great. I also just think that Evan Mobley being the best player on this team can look a variety of different ways. It can be if Evan Mobley is more efficient with the same amount of touches that that could result in, you know, a higher share of the scoring load. Right. Because there is always two sides to this. Yes, the Cavs need to get Evan bogle the ball more, but yes, he needs to be more forceful about getting it and being more playing with more force when he does get it. Right. So I mean, he’s already coming off of a defensive player of the year award winning season. Evan Molly taking a leap in force, a slight leap as a player could mean Evan Mobley averages 13 rebounds a game for the first time in his career. I think a lot of Cavs fans would be encouraged by that. There’s a lot of different ways to skin this cat. I don’t think that it necessarily needs to look a certain way on paper. I just think we’ll kind of have it, I know it when you see it on the court kind of thing.
Ethan Sands: When I think about this conversation about Donovan Mitchell being in the MVP race, I also think about Evan Mobley being in this conversation, needing to be in this conversation, wanting to be in this conversation. And I think back to Kenny Atkinson saying during summer league that over the next two, three years, Evan Mobley will need to be in these conversations for them to be where they want to be. And, and I know 24 year old Evan Mobley now entering his fifth year in the NBA, he has already earned a singular MVP vote last year, right. So there are people who are catching up to the radar of Evan Mobley. So as much as we’re saying Donovan Mitchell could earn MVP buzz at the beginning of the season, I think this is also a great time for Evan Mobley to earn MVP buzz. Because I think Donovan Mitchell at the beginning of the season, as much as he’s going to need to get off himself, should be force feeding Evan Mobley. Because if you don’t have the offensive capacity of Darius Garland, Max Strus, and now you’re trying to find out what Evan Mobley is capable of when it comes to the workload of taking over, that this is when you push that, you push that nozzle all the way up because you’re trying to figure out where he is mentally when you talk about the assertiveness, the aggressiveness that we’ve been talking about for Evan Mobley, because if he gets the ball at the top of the key. We’ve talked about this this summer, Jimmy, let him go, let him attack the basket, let him figure out what dribble moves he wants to get into. And sure, we don’t necessarily want him turning into a guard and trying to go one on one in every given scenario, but at the beginning of this season, where the area that they’re going to be lacking is offense, and you’ve been begging this player to increase his offensive production. Well, if he can average 30 points over the first 30 games of the season, that’s an ideal thing for this team. When you talk about how he gets into the offense, when you talk about the confidence out that would grow and how that doesn’t necessarily affect him when these other players get back because they should still be trying to get in the ball and Darius Garlett is going to do that and push the narrative forward. I just think it’s important for us to. When we say best player on the team, that’s what that means. MVP conversations. Right. And that’s what that means for between Donovan and Evan. Maybe they end up taking votes from each other. That would be the ideal situation, not for them, but for the Cavs as a franchise going into this season.
Jimmy Watkins: I would also say the Cavs playoff track record, all the things they can’t prove in the regular season this year. Right. We’re having that conversation a lot this summer. I think that makes it really hard for them to crack a serious MVP conversation. Evan Mooney makes a super leap and is scoring 25:30 a game. All right, I’m open, I’m open to revisit this conversation if he starts looking like Giannis or his numbers start looking like Giannis’s. I mean, the baseline is best year of his career last year, 18 and a half points a game, 12.8 field goal attempts. Like that would be a massive shift for him. A massive jump up. And la. I thought last year was a massive jump up for him. When Kenny says you should be in the top five of the mvp, MVP conversation. Well, I always kind of roll my eyes when during the season we say, oh, this guy has to be in the MVP conversation, what does that mean? Is he going to win the award? No. Then what kind of conversation are we having? If we’re stumbling for someone to be fifth or sixth in mvp, I sometimes feel like we’re wasting our breath. It would Be great. Evan Mobyte, looking at basketball reference, I guess technically finished 10th or potentially tied for 10th on the ballot last year. That’s great. And I’m sure you are Evan Moby to get better and maybe that results in him climbing higher on the dot. But I do think that the Cavs public, the, their perception hurts them a lot here because when, you know, Cavs win 55, 60 games this year, people go, we’ve seen this movie before, I don’t trust it yet. That’s one of their best arguments to get a player higher on the ballot is we’re one of the best teams in the, in the league. And if people see that and don’t actually believe that you’re one of the best teams in the league, I just feel like the barrier for entry for these guys to, to crack the ballot is really high. It’s going to be hard. It’s going to be hard for the, for those conversations to happen. But I do. Evan Mobley can become the player, the kind of player that Kenny Atkinson wants him to be without necessarily getting the MVP buzz.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. And I’m not saying I’m expecting 30 points a game from Evan Mobley. Obviously Jimmy, you make a great point. 18 and a half points is his career high when it comes to a regular season performance. But I do think like, because they are going to be lacking in offense, like to continue to keep up with what Kenny Atkinson style of offense that they want to run, there’s a potential for Evan Mobley to average 20 to 30 points a game. And at the beginning of this season because of what he’s capable of when it comes to running the offense himself. And if we get into this topic of him grabbing a defensive rebound and running the floor, that’s one of the times of the game where Evan Mobley is most dangerous because offenses are scrambling to get back one and two. They just can’t keep up with a seven footer that’s able to dribble the ball off the floor and, and take it the distance and go coast to coast. Especially when you have other scorers coming down, flying down the lane as well. And maybe it’s not Evan Mobley goes coast to coast. Maybe it’s Evan Mobley gets to half court, dumps off to Lonzo Ball and then cuts around the defender and gets a lob right. And this is still getting back to the point where the Cavs attacking in transition is going to be something that’s crucial for this team to start the year and, and also going to be telling for the conditioning that they’ve been doing. Kind of getting back to what we were talking about at the beginning of this podcast. The mini camps, the pre camp workouts that they’ve been doing, showcasing the chemistry that they’ve been growing. And what we’ve been hearing behind the scenes is Lonzo Ball and Donovan Mitchell have a good chemistry already as well. Plus just the fact that the team itself is looking good going into training camp. Aside from the players that are injured, when I said earlier that there were only a couple players that were not in attendance, it was the players that are injured and could not participate. Right. So I think that’s the most important part of what the learning part of last season’s playoff was, the Indiana Pacer series, understanding that they were outpaced, outmuscled, outran and they cannot allow that to happen again in any series. And, and so maybe that’s partially why Donovan Mitchell’s been in these runs with his high school college prospects, trying to get up and down the court with players that seemingly have no burnout, have no end to their meter. But I also think it’s just trying to showcase and try to understand where their body’s limits are and pushing past them even at the beginning of the season because you understand how that will show itself in the latter half of the year, even if it’s just getting started now.
Jimmy Watkins: This is where you build your habits, is where you set your foundation off. Season strength training sets the durability tone. But we have never been more in wait and see mode with the Caps. Show me, prove me. And it’s hard to do. It’s hard to do any of those things until, until April. I if you don’t like hearing that, prepare yourself for a long, long six months. Because I think that’s going to be the overwhelming narrative around this team for the entire season, even into a couple of playoff rounds. I mean, banged up as the east is the Cavs barrier for what they have to do to prove people wrong, quote, unquote. They gotta do a lot. They gotta do a lot. So this is. These are all good things that they’re doing. And the culture is clearly strong. Donovan Mitchell is a strong leader. I hate to invoke the other team across town, but Kevin Stefanski always talks about strong followership as well as strong leadership. It looks like the Cavs have that. And that intense sense will get you to ride the bus at this point in the season. So we’ll see.
Ethan Sands: Well, see has been to what we’ve been saying all summer, right and that that’s just kind of the itch coming back for us as well as reporters, as analysts, as, as commentators when it comes to this season, this coming season and how important it is. We keep saying the next two years are pivotal for this Cleveland Cavaliers franchise, the organization and what the trajectory is going to be going forward. But I think we also understand that there’s so much potential for this team and that’s what makes the second round exits so difficult to swallow because the expectations are there, the capability is there, the talent is there, the structure is there. But what is missing is still the question on the table and understanding where they’re coming from. Trying to figure out who to sign as their 14th rockster spot, which could happen any day now, could happen a month from now, right? So I definitely think it’s interesting to think about that. And on that 14th roster spot note, the deadline has passed for NBA teams to sign a player and have that player become trade eligible on December 15, which is the unofficial opening of trade season. Now any player signed will have a three month trade restriction before they can be dealt. So whoever the Cavs sign as their 14th man roster spot will not be eligible to be traded for at least three months or until the trade deadline basically at this point. But I do think it’s interesting how the Cavs are constructed. I do think it’s interesting where this Cavs team is going and there’s a lot riding on these next two years, as we continue to say. But I do think that this Cavs team has what it takes to to make a conference finals run because that is the bare minimum, especially in the East. But also, talking about the NBA Finals in September feels like a stretch, so we’ll have to keep going and figure out what happens there. With all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a cast insider and interact with Chris B. And Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send in your questions for our weekly hey Chris episodes and we will answer all subtext questions even if Chris is not on the show. So sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can sell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.