By Frank Chung

Copyright news

Mr Canavan appeared on Monday’s Afternoon Briefing, where Karvelas grilled him on the Coalition’s cratering poll numbers and recent comments by former Liberal Prime Minister Tony Abbott calling for an end to “mass immigration”.

“[Mr Abbott] says that the ever-more diverse immigration program is a concern for him — is it for you?” Karvelas asked. “Is it the kind of the type of people coming in?”

The Queensland Senator said it was “the number” that concerned him, but added “a key concern of any migration program is to ensure that new migrants to our country assimilate to our values, our principles, and we keep our country as it’s always been”.

“It’s been a great country, it’s been a harmonious country, but I do believe the ability to do that of any nation is linked to the number of people you’re taking in each year,” he said.

“And right now, Australia’s welcome mat is being tested.

“We’ve always welcomed migrants from other countries, but if you’re taking in the number of people, as this government has done — the size of Canberra every year, it’s very, very hard to do that. And that’s why we’re seeing increasing concern about this among the Australian people.”

Mr Canavan said migration was “putting a lot of economic pressure on our country” as well as “cultural pressure” — prompting pushback from Karvelas.

“No, I’ve got to pick you up there — what’s the cultural pressure?” she said.

“Well as I say, I want people to assimilate, I mean …” Mr Canavan said.

“Yep — what do you mean?” Karvelas said.

“I want people to share our values,” Mr Canavan said.

“Look at the situation we’re seeing in crime statistics in Melbourne. I mean, some of that is clearly linked in migrant communities that are struggling to control the situation with so many people coming and the economic pressures …”

“You can’t blame migrants for crime in Melbourne?” Karvelas hit back.

Mr Canavan claimed “I wasn’t”, before venturing, “I read the other day … wasn’t there a machete attack in a community?”

He did not elaborate.

Earlier this month, Melbourne’s South Sudanese community was rocked by the deaths of two boys aged 12 and 15, who were brutally stabbed by a group of masked men wielding machetes and long-edged weapons in a suspected gang attack.

“I mean, this is clearly having an influence on our country,” Mr Canavan continued.

“Crime is having influence. The economic pressures we create from extra migration are having an impact on our society … that’s why so many Australians are concerned. But the government’s done nothing about that …”

“OK, so I’ve got to challenge you,” Karvelas cut in.

“When people hear you say that, Matt Canavan — I’m sorry to so rudely interrupt, but I have to make the point — when people hear you say that migrants are responsible for this kind of …”

“I didn’t say that,” Mr Canavan said. “Hang on, Patricia, I did not say that … don’t verbal me.”

“Well, that’s what I heard, and my ears work pretty well,” Karvelas said.

“I said that … I think when you bring in so many people and you have so much pressure on our economy, you get increases in crime, and we’re seeing that,” Mr Canavan said.

“I’m not blaming any particular people for that. It’s the government to blame here for not managing our borders properly.”

Karvelas pointed out that “crime is perpetrated by all sorts of people” and challenged Mr Canavan, “What community are referring to?”

“Well as I say, I’m just saying it’s a consequence of having too many people come to this country at once,” Mr Canavan said.

Fellow guest Andrew Leigh, Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury, said Mr Canavan’s comments showed why the Coalition had been eviscerated at the polls.

“There is a relationship between migration and crime — migrants, on average, do less crime than native born Australians,” Dr Leigh said.

“What we’re seeing throughout Australia is strong support for multiculturalism. Nine out of 10 Australians believe multiculturalism is a success story.

“We’ve reduced migration from the record highs it was under the Coalition, getting it more in line, including working with universities on the student migration program.

“But to go back to a racially discriminatory migration scheme like we had under the White Australia policy … would be madness. That is the sort of thing that [was] countenanced by some members of the Coalition in the last few weeks.”

“I’ve never said that,” Mr Canavan said.

Karvelas again pressed Mr Canavan on his comments linking migration to crime.

“I’m happy to clarify, Patricia,” he said. “The issue here is the economic pressures are being created by migration, that’s causing these issues. I did not blame any particular people for it.

“The issue here is that because we’re taking way too many people, there’s a lot of homelessness pressures, there’s a lot of economic pressures on the Australian people that are clearly being exacerbated by the mismanagement of our borders.

“That is leading to a number of different breakdowns in our social norms, including in increased crime. I’m not saying that any particular migrant group.”

Karvelas pressed, “Just to be clear, you are also saying migrants more broadly. So, that is still a link that you’re making that I think it could be contested?”

“No, I’m saying the migration program,” Mr Canavan said. “I’m saying the migration program, Patricia. OK? Let’s just be very clear, OK?”

Karvelas insisted “I’m not verballing you”.

“You’re live on television, Matt Canavan,” she said. “People can make up their own minds.”

The heated back-and-forth comes amid growing public debate over Australia’s migration intake, with protesters taking to the streets in capital cities over recent weekends and the Coalition in turmoil over comments by former frontbencher Jacinta Price about Indian migrants.

Mr Abbott, who served as Prime Minister from 2013 to 2015 and campaigned on “stopping the boats” in a crackdown on illegal immigration, waded into the debate in a blog post last week declaring “mass immigration across the Anglo-sphere must cease”.

“[It’s] more than possible to be pro-migrant without supporting an ever-larger and an ever-more-diverse immigration program,” he wrote.

“[With] some groups of recent immigrants over-represented in crime and welfare statistics, or in Palestine protests, there are anxieties about the impact of continuing high immigration on social cohesion.

“There should be a stronger insistence that all migrants fully and wholeheartedly commit to their new home’s values.”

Writing on the ABC website on Monday, Karvelas said Mr Abbott was using “coded language” and “saying the quiet bit out loud”.

“The ‘ever more diverse” is the key bit here,” she said.

“This isn’t a benign statement about the core numbers of immigrants coming into our country. It’s about who we are bringing in, just as much as the volume.”

frank.chung@news.com.au