CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor discuss internal player development, highlighting how the Cavs will look to utilize Jaylon Tyson in the coming season.
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Cavs extend training camp invite to Killian Hayes and four other prospects, searching for final two-way player
How Joe Burrow’s turf toe surgery better explains Darius Garland’s playoff struggles
Takeaways:
Killian Hayes Signed as a “Camp Body” with G-League Potential
The Cleveland Charge acquired the G-League rights for point guard Killian Hayes, a former top-10 pick, primarily to add a capable ball-handler for the Cavs’ training camp. Hayes is ineligible for the team’s final two-way NBA contract due to accruing four years of service time. However, with Darius Garland expected to be very limited in camp activities, Hayes provides a necessary “camp body” to run practices and drills. Head coach Kenny Atkinson has a relationship with Hayes from their time with the French national team. The most probable outcome is that Hayes will play for the Charge, using that platform to showcase his skills for another potential NBA opportunity, while providing valuable depth for the organization.
Practice Matchups are a Key Player Development Strategy
The Cavaliers are strategically using specific player acquisitions and practice matchups to accelerate player development. For instance, rookie Jaylon Tyson is being challenged to guard Donovan Mitchell in workouts to fast-track his defensive skills, as his path to minutes will be through defense, not scoring. Similarly, the signing of Thomas Bryant, a center who can shoot from the perimeter, is intended to force Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley to improve their perimeter defense — an area of weakness. This philosophy extends to Killian Hayes, who will be tasked with applying full-court pressure on guards like Craig Porter Jr. and Sam Merrill, simulating the pesky, high-pressure defenders they will face in real games.
High Expectations and a Clear Role for Jaylon Tyson
Second-year wing Jaylon Tyson is expected to be an immediate contributor this season, a sentiment echoed by the front office, coaches, and teammates. Injuries to Max Strus and Darius Garland have opened up significant minutes at the wing positions, creating a direct path for Tyson to earn a spot in the rotation. His development has been a major focus, with reports that his outside shot is now faster and smoother. The primary question surrounding Tyson isn’t his work ethic or willingness, but his ability to effectively transition from a high-usage college scorer to a 3-and-D role player in the NBA. While he has the desire, he must prove he can be an effective off-ball and team defender, a noted area for improvement from his rookie season.
De’Andre Hunter’s Full Integration is a Top Priority
The coaching staff has made integrating De’Andre Hunter a major offseason priority, with Kenny Atkinson spending “a lot of time” with him and even suggesting Hunter has been the team’s best player this summer. The organization admits it didn’t fully grasp how multifaceted Hunter’s offensive game was when they acquired him last season, and they now have a better understanding of how to unleash his potential. Key areas for his growth include developing as a passer to avoid being a “ball-stopper” and improving his rebounding, as he has never averaged five rebounds per game. While his offense is a known commodity, his defensive effectiveness—specifically whether he plays the small forward or power forward position—and commitment to rebounding will be critical to watch in training camp.
Roster Versatility Could Lead to a New Starting Five
The significant focus on De’Andre Hunter has led to speculation that he could permanently win the starting small forward job, even after Max Strus returns from his injury. The hosts noted a real possibility that if Hunter performs at the level the organization anticipates, Strus may remain in a bench role or see more minutes at shooting guard. This highlights a key theme for the upcoming season: roster versatility. The team believes it has successfully added more playable depth, theoretically giving Atkinson more lineup combinations that don’t sacrifice offense for defense, or vice versa, which will be critical in the playoffs.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation! I’m your host, Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me today, none other than Chris Fedor, Cavs beat reporter for cleveland.com and guys, we talked a lot about the preseason press conference that took place yesterday and we even got into the signing of Thomas Bryant to a one year non guaranteed deal as well. But even after that, after we got off the podcast, the Cavs kept on moving. They actually sent out invites to five different prospects for the Cleveland Charge and for the Cleveland Cavaliers. As they still do have one right roster spot open. Even though we know that they are unlikely to use that spot until later into the season, it’s more likely that one of these five players is going to earn the last two way spot. The player that was highest on this list, that is most recognizable is Killian Hayes. But again, a little bit of note for you guys. Killian Hayes is ineligible for the last two way spot because he has already accrued four years of NBA service time. So Chris, why is Killian Hayes being signed by the Cleveland Charge and getting traded for for a first and second round pick in the 2026 G League Draft?
Chris Fedor: Well, they had to get his rights first and foremost. And you know, when you talk about what the Cavs need going into preseason, what they need going into training camp, they need somebody else that can play point guard. They need somebody else that can be a ball handler. Donovan Mitchell is not going to play in every single preseason game. And then if you’re talking about at camp, Darius Garland is going to be very limited. I don’t think he’s going to do any kind of team activities. I don’t think he’s going to do any kind of fast paced change of direction, anything along those lines. Scrimmaging, dummy sets like walkthrough type stuff. Yeah, I think Darius is going to be out there potentially. I think, you know, jogging around the court and simulating certain things at a slow pace. Yeah, I think potentially Darius is going to be out there. But when you talk about like the main things that you want to accomplish at training camp, you just need another body. So look, Gillian Hayes has a Pedigree, former top 10 pick, has participated in various things with, with the French national team and Kenny Atkinson has a relationship with him from that. Kenny Atkinson is a fan of him from those kinds of things. All of the relationships that Kenny has with various members of the French national team, the coaching staff, the trainers, stuff like that, they’ve given positive feedback on Killian Hayes, the person and the player. So I think this is. Why not take a look. Somebody with a, a pedigree of a former first round pick. We need a point guard, we need another ball handler, just somebody to get us through camp. In the NFL, there’s always this term for this quarterback that pops up on a roster and it’s just a camp army, somebody else to do the thing so that you don’t have your main quarterbacks do all of this stuff. And I think when it comes to Killian Hayes, he’s more of a camp body. He’s going to get an opportunity. The Cavs are going to look at him, they’re going to see what they like, what they don’t like. And I think it’s a, it’s a situation where it works for Killian because he’s probably looking for one more NBA shot before he calls it an NBA career and then ends up going overseas. So this is something that I think both parties were open to and the Cavs are bringing him in. But the most likely outcome for any of this is Killian Hayes being a member of the Cleveland Charge and him being the, the point guard for the Cleveland Charge and seeing if he can capture the NBA’s attention through the G League as opposed to anything that happens with the NBA version of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, Chris, and part of what you mentioned is just simply needing more guard hands, right. When it comes to the preseason. And I also think it could be a test for guys like Tyrese Proctor and Craig Quarter Jr. To go up against a player like Killian Hayes, who not only is 6 foot 5 and has the defensive pedigree as well, but also you understand that he has over 200 games in the NBA played, even though majority of those are with the Detroit Pistons. And he wasn’t playing to the caliber that they had originally sought after when they drafted him with the number seven overall pick. But we also still can recognize that he has a skill set that can challenge players that aren’t established or stable in the NBA today as well, because we know Craig Porter Jr. Is still looking to find his footing. And Tyrese Proctor, of course, has only played in summer league and has yet to play true NBA minute.
Chris Fedor: I think that’s an interesting point too, because you know, when, when Kenny Atkinson and Kobe Altman spoke during their media day session a week in advance from actual media day, they were talking about player development. And I think part of player development is what these guys get to go up against behind the scenes. Part of the player Development for Jalen Tyson, for example, is guarding Donovan Mitchell. The Cavs have been asking in some of these pre camp get togethers and out on the court yesterday, the guys were working out on the court in a voluntary capacity while Kobe and Kenny were talking. They’re asking Jaylon Tyson or they’re challenging Jaylon Tyson to guard Donovan Mitchell in these kinds of situations. Because if, if Jalen is going to make a name for himself early on in his career, it’s not going to be with the ball in his hands. High usage, a whole bunch of shots, scoring a bunch of points like that might be a byproduct of him actually getting consistent minutes. But that’s not his role for this basketball team. Not right now anyway. Maybe it evolves into that. But with the way that this roster is currently constructed, what they’re asking Jalen Tyson to do is the other kinds of things. Be a defender, be a rebounder, play off the ball. And part of his responsibility and part of his development is into what they hope is a capable 3 and D type player is guard Donovan Mitchell. And see how you match up against Donovan and see the things that you can learn behind the scenes from guarding one of the premier scorers in the entire NBA. Another example here, the Cavs like Thomas Bryant, they’ve liked him for a long time. They were looking at him at the start of free agency. They were actually debating Thomas Bryant versus Larry Nance Jr. At one point. And I think it, it just ended up in the situation that they were in and, and based on what else was available to them in free agency and how the rest of their off season unfolded, that they got both, they got Larry Nance Jr. And Thomas Bryant. But. But part of what they like about Thomas Bryant is that he has a different kind of skill set. He can shoot from behind the arc, he can pull defenders away from the perimeter. So if you talk about player development, let’s look at Jarrett Allen, let’s look at Evan Mobley. What are the things that Jarrett sometimes struggles with on the defensive end of the floor? Great rim protector, great anchor, but he struggles at times guarding players out on the perimeter, guys that are quicker than him, guys that are more skilled than him. So how do you help his development? And I know Jared is more of a veteran, but player development doesn’t just stop because you hit 26, 27, 28 years old, like it continues. So one of the things that the Cavs are working with Jared on is defend out on the perimeter, be more comfortable as a defender out on the Perimeter, especially if you’re going to play against Milwaukee and Miles Turner or in this case, Thomas Bryant is here on your roster. And in some of these pickup games, in some of these scrimmages, in some of these practices now you have Jarrett being forced to go out to the perimeter and see if he can guard somebody with the skill set of Thomas Bryant. So, you know, when it comes to decisions that organizations make, there are so many different layers to them. But I think it’s a good point with Killian Hayes. You know, Killian Hayes is somebody who, you know, historically picks up 94ft away, pressures the ball. Now you have some of your primary ball handlers, Craig Porter Jr. Sam Merrill, to a degree, Donovan Mitchell. You know, in these practices, behind the scenes, Killian Hayes is probably the guy who the Cavs are going to say, hey, go pick up Whoever it is, 94ft, pester the heck out of those guys to try and get them used to, you know, playing against pressure, playing against elite on ball defenders, playing against pesky dudes who are nuisances. You know, part of Kyrie Irving’s development way back in the day was Matthew Della Vadova was this plucky undrafted dude who was just getting under the skin of Kyrie Irving. And Kyrie’s looking at, he’s like, who the hell is this dude? Like, this guy’s relentless, this guy’s annoying, this guy’s pesky. But, you know, in some ways, I don’t know to what degree, but in some ways it helped Kyrie Irving’s development, having to go against that every single day. And maybe, maybe Killian Hayes has that kind of effect for Craig Porter Jr. Or Sam, Sam Merrill’s going to get more on ball opportunities. Sam Merrill’s going to get more opportunities to maybe dribble the ball up the floor. Sam Merrill might get more ball handling opportunities. Okay. See how you handle it against somebody like Killian Hayes, who’s long athletic and can be a pesky type defender.
Ethan Sands: Utah State. Sam Merrill’s coming back, Chris. We don’t get to see.
Chris Fedor: He’s been telling everybody, Ethan, whether it’s members of the media, his teammates or his coaches. I’m a point guard. I have some point guard in my past. Don’t overlook that.
Ethan Sands: Without a doubt. Without a doubt. And I wrote about that from a couple years ago actually at this point. But yeah, Sam Arrow having the ball in his hand, it would not be surprising to me, especially with the lack of ball handling and wanting to get Donovan Mitchell off the ball as much as possible, especially as he’ll be the de facto point guard anyway. But I also want to get into the other four players that received invitations from the Cavs to training camp for next week at IMG Academy Nor Chad Omir, Tristan and Aruna Chaney, Johnson and Jackson Robinson. If these names sound familiar to Cavs fans, it’s because most of them were on the Cavs summer league team, right? And they have some kind of experience with this team already. Chris, getting away from this a little bit or even going into it, if you would like, what are you some things that you are most excited about to learn about this team when it comes to next week at training camp because we know obviously you are the man in the know. You get all the information from your sources, but being able to see, hear, feel what the atmosphere is like in a gym is much different than being able to hear it from afar.
Chris Fedor: The first thing for me, Ethan, is Kenny Atkinson has spoken throughout the course of this off season. Whether it was his NBA TV appearance during Vegas Summer League, a conversation that I had with him at Vegas Summer League, a conversation that I had with him at Darius’s celebrity softball game, or even yesterday at at his media day session. He’s talked about we’re not going to change things drastically. The things that we do work. We were top 10 in offense. We had one of the best offenses in NBA history. But he’s talked about stylistic tweaks. So I’m going to be very interested to see what those are. Now, some of those might be a byproduct of we’re not going to have Darius at the beginning of the regular season. We’re not going to have Max Drus, maybe to the All Star break. So the personnel is going to be slightly different that he’s working with. But he believes in his system and he should. I mean, what they did offensively was not a problem for a majority of the season last year. But what are these stylistic tweaks that he’s talking about? How can the Cavs take what was one of the best offenses in NBA history and evolve it even more? And what does that look like and what does that lead to? Does that mean more Evan Mobley featured within the offense? Probably. That’s probably one of the things. Does it mean more Evan Mobley in terms of a shot creator, a playmaker, an initiator? Probably. Does that mean more Donovan Mitchell off the ball? Probably. But what are these other stylistic tweaks that that Kenny has been alluding to for the last three or four months? That’s something that I’m going to be watching for. Another thing that I’m going to be watching for Ethan, it. It is hard not to hear the excitement surrounding Jalen Tyson and this potential opportunity that he’s going to have probably from the outset because of this injury to Max Stru, combined with the injury to Darius Garland and the shuffling that’s going to take place within the roster. Now, Donovan Mitchell’s not going to get a majority of his minutes at the shooting guard spot. He’s going to get them at the point guard spot. And that opens up minutes at shooting guards and all of the domino effect that’s going to come with that. Well, one of the quote unquote beneficiaries is going to be Jalen Tyson. Kobe Altman has talked about him in glowing terms. Jalen’s teammates have talked about him with excitement. And Kenny Atkinson talked about him being a contributor from the beginning of this season. So what does Jaylon Tyson look like in Year two? Got a full NBA season under his belt. Got a lot of NBA development behind the scenes. Learned some things about his own game by playing against NBA caliber players. So what does he look like in Year two? And just how much of a contributor can he be to this thing? And I think the other thing that’s going to be fascinating to see is just how much more the CAVS Learn about DeAndre Hunter and how they unleash him. Because if you talk to anybody inside this organization, Kenny Atkinson included, the Cavs just didn’t have an opportunity to fully explore the depths of the way that DeAndre Hunter can fit into this basketball team in the way that he can impact the game at both ends of the floor. And the Cavs were able to take a step back. They were able to watch some film, they were able to have discussions with DeAndre, they were able to see him in certain kind of environments, whether it was working out in Los Angeles on his own in some of those runs that he was participating in with other NBA players, or it was the voluntary player led workouts where DeAndre was a part of it. With the Cavs, they just, they know more about DeAndre today than they did at the end of last season. So what does that look like for DeAndre? How’s he going to be used within the offense? Is he going to play more at the 3 or more at the 4? Which players is he going to play alongside? Which ones does he fit alongside best? Because one of the things that Kenny Atkinson said, you know, after DeAndre arrived was, hey, Ty, DeAndre, they’ve got that built in connection, they’ve got that built in chemistry. So I’m just going to keep a lot of their minutes together. Well, Ty’s no longer here, so is it DeAndre and Donovan a majority of the time? Is it DeAndre and Sam Merrill a majority of the time? Is it more DeAndre Craig Porter Jr. Like, what is that partnership that is potentially going to form? Who, who are the players that. That DeAndre is going to be alongside that might help him blossom and help take the calves to a different kind of level? So those are some of the things that I’m going to be watching for. You know, you don’t want to take too much of what you see at training camp and put too much stock into it. Same thing when it goes to the preseason. Because so many of these things are fluid, Ethan. But you do get little clues, you do get little hints of, of what Kenny Atkinson is thinking and some of his process and what the Cavs are potentially going to look like when it comes to opening night against the New York Knicks.
Ethan Sands: I mean, Chris, if anybody knows not to take it too seriously when it comes to preseason results, it’s this Cavs team because they went 04 in preseason games last year to that point.
Chris Fedor: Ethan, because I think if we go back, how many years is it at this point in time? About three years ago? About three years ago, there were some signs during training camp in the preseason that J.B. bickerstaff, the head coach at that time, was looking at Lowry Markkanen as a small forward. And like at this point, when, when Lowry arrived way back then, a lot of people were saying, you know, where is he going to fit on this team? Evan Mobley is the starting power forward. Is Lowry going to come off the bench in a six man role? Is he going to get limited minutes? And you started to see signs of J.B. bickerstaff saying, hey, what does it look like with Lowry at the three? What does it look like with a super sized front court? And then he unveiled it in one of the preseason games and you’re like, wait a minute, this isn’t just training camp fodder here. This isn’t just the usual front office conjecture. This is a real thing that could happen. Like Lowry might be the starting small forward on this basketball team and that’s the way that it happened on opening night. So, you know, as the Cavs are going through training camp and preseason, you can definitely look for little clues like that that that may lead you to more of a definitive answer, more of.
Ethan Sands: The nuances and behind the scenes and what you can learn from it rather than taking away from the result of the game. Because we know that’s not important at all, literally. But I wanted to get into the Jaylon Tyson and DeAndre Hunter portion of what you mentioned. Jaylon Tyson has extremely impressed me. He’s been extremely impressive with what we knew him coming in to be from when he was drafted number 20 overall from Cal. And then not even a day later talking to us about I know what it’s going to take for me to get minutes with the Cavs, I’m not going to be a scorer, I’m not going to do this. I know I have to get better as a defender and I want to earn rotation minutes. A year later. Chris, obviously he might not have got the run that he wanted last year, but he did get the play a little bit, get some NBA tickets because of how the Cavs were just blowing things out.
Chris Fedor: But a year later, no might about it, Ethan, he did not get the run that he wanted.
Ethan Sands: Fair enough, fair enough. But a year later he is legitimately one of the most interesting pieces on this team for the 2025, 2026 season. And I would say that would have been the case even if Max Struse and Darius Garland were here because you didn’t know how he was going to mesh into the rotation pieces while after losing Ty, Jerome, Isaac, Okoro, all these things and Jaylon Tyson. To me, his work ethic as we talked about at length, is one of his biggest strengths. And I think Jimmy said it best the other day. It is a skill and not everybody has it. But for him to be able to be in year two, still be young, still be hungry and understanding his role in is huge for the development and the maturity aspect of this team. I know he’s not a leader per se, but to have somebody of his age and of his stature on this team and him already be knowing and willing to do all of the right things to get where he wants, where he believes the Cavs need to be, I think that sets good precedent for not only the other players behind him, but also for the people in front of him. Like, well, the rookie’s doing it or not a rookie anymore, the second year players doing it. Why can’t I? Why is he setting a better example than I am? But I don’t necessarily know that’s how some of the Cavs players are thinking about it. That’s just how I’m thinking about it when it comes to Jalen Tyson and what he’s going to bring. I’m very curious to see how his shot has improved over the summer, because I know he’s been in the gym working on it, and for me, that’s the make or break for him, because if his shot got a little quicker, if he’s not just doing the wrist action on the catch and shoot, I think this is a player that can make an impact this year, especially if the defense is as good as we’ve been hearing it is.
Chris Fedor: It’s faster, it’s smoother. His outside shot, it was clear that it’s something that. That he has worked on with the Cavs coaches. I think the main question when it comes to Jalen, beyond everything that you said, is, you know, it’s one thing to have the desire to be that kind of role player and to play a certain kind of way and fill in the gaps and do these things that the Cavs are asking you to do and become a certain type of player. Right? He clearly has the desire to do that, and he’s clearly worked on that to become that because he understands that that’s his pathway to consistent playing time. It’s one thing to say all those things, and it’s one thing to have that kind of desire. It’s another thing to be effective in that kind of role. So the question becomes, can somebody who, throughout the majority of his college career, when he actually got his opportunity, somebody who had the ball in his hands consistently, somebody who was scoring around 20 points per game, somebody who is used to a certain kind of usage and a certain kind of shot profile, can somebody like that, in just year two in the NBA, change that mentality and be effective doing the little things? Because not everybody can. A lot of guys can talk about, hey, I want to be a three and D type guy, or, hey, I want to be a lockdown defender, or, hey, I just want to play a role off the ball. Da da da da da. But. But, like, it has to suit your skill set to some degree, and you have to be effective in that kind of role. You know, Dean Wade, years ago, he decided, like, I’ve got to become a defender. Like, they don’t need me to score. They don’t need me to shoot as much. I’ve got to do these little things. I’ve got to rebound, and I’ve got to do everything that I can do behind the scenes to become what is my niche. I’ve got to become a lockdown defender. I’ve got to become a kid Capable plus defender. And he did, and credit to him. But initially a lot of people inside the organization and his teammates were like, no, no. Like, that’s not Dean Wade defender. Like, no. What? Are you serious? That’s not going to happen. He doesn’t have the skill set for that. He doesn’t have the physical traits for that. Turned out he did. So the question with Jaylon Tyson is, okay, you’ve got the desire to do that and that’s great. And you’ve made the commitment to become that for this team and that’s great as well. But can you actually do it? Because as a rookie, he was not a great defender. You know, on the ball he could be tough, he could be physical, he’s got the NBA body, he could theoretically stay in front of guys. But off the ball, he got lost in zone concepts. He got lost too. So I, I, I, I commend him for, for wanting to become all of these things that the Cavs have kind of asked him to become. But at the end of the day, like, he’s got to show that, that he does have the skill set to be those kinds of things. And that’s something that I’m going to watch for, for sure with him.
Ethan Sands: And then getting into the last thing DeAndre Hunter, I mean, Chris Kenny Hackinson came right out and was raving about his summer with DeAndre Hunter because he even had to correct himself. He said, I spent a little bit. No, I spent a lot of time with DeAndre Hunter this summer. And he also said that you can make the argument that DeAndre Hunter has been the best player for the Cavs this off season. And as you mentioned Ty Jerome a little bit earlier, I do think it is ironic that Ty Jerome has passed the MVP of September torch over to DeAndre Hunter. But the other part about this is Kobe Altman saying that they didn’t realize how multifaceted DeAndre Hunter was offensively. Right. And that in turn was because of they didn’t have enough time to practice. I think they had one practice with him before the playoffs and did not have the opportunity to ingratiate him into an offensive ski. It was more so get him the ball, let him do what he knows how to do and get out of the way. But when it comes to the offensive scheme for this coming season, I think it’s one important to see how DeAndre Hunter is going to grow as a passer because as we’ve mentioned on previous podcasts, he has not averaged over two assists per game in his entire NBA career in any season of his NBA career. And we do not want him to come off as a ball stopper or a black hole. That’s not going to be helpful for the Cleveland Cavaliers. We need him to be more of an offensive hub somewhere between Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley. Right. You need to have that kind of middleman to figure out if Donovan doesn’t have the ball, if Sam Merrow doesn’t have the ball and Evan Moly doesn’t have the ball. DeAndre, you are able to create offense rather than just making offense for yourself happen. And I think it’s interesting when we talk about the multifaceted portion of his game because as we know, he can shoot from beyond the arc. He’s a beautiful mid range game that we can all rave about, be able to put the ball on the floor when is called upon. So I think it’ll be interesting to see how the Cavs use him in offensive sets, in offensive schemes and what that looks like when it comes to wing to corner, elbows to corner, all of these different things and where he’ll be set up and what kind of play plays they’re going to run. Because as you mentioned earlier, Chris, they have sat down and not only watched film, but also had conversations about what is necessary for him to feel most comfortable and also for the Cavs to have most success. I think DeAndre Hunter, outside of Evan Mobley was the most intricate piece to this team for this coming season and Kenny Atkinson took that to heart. When it comes to this summer, they.
Chris Fedor: Were a significantly better basketball team. Ethan, with, with deandre on the floor last year and, and I think now they know more about him and, and now they have a better understanding on how to use him at both ends of the floor. And there’s a reason why the Cavs acquired him at the trade deadline. There’s a reason why they gave up what they did for him. There were players inside the locker room saying point blank, yeah, we’re the number one team in the Eastern Conference, but we need DeAndre. We need somebody with his skill set. And I think it’s exciting from a Cavs perspective to think about just how much more involved he can be and how much better this team can get with DeAndre being more involved. This is a guy who at the time that the Cavs traded for him, he was in the conversation for six man of the year. He had a career year. Now you ask yourself how much better can he be within this offense when there’s just more information and there’s more data to it. But I think the question with DeAndre is just where do they put him within this lineup and how does that impact what they do defensively? The offense thing, they were basically 90 plus percentile in offense when DeAndre was on the floor. But but defensively it was a drastic difference when he played the three versus the four. And I think for him there’s got to be more of a commitment to rebounding and there’s got to be more of a commitment to defense and guarding bigger players if that’s what he’s going to be asked to do. If he’s going to play the four. Now, maybe the Cavs decide to themselves, hey, like it just makes more sense based on our lineup construction and DeAndre’s skill set, that we’re going to keep him alongside Evan Mobley and Jared Allen or we’re going to keep him alongside Jared Allen and Larry Nance Jr. Or we’re going to keep him alongside Thomas Bryant and Evan Mobley or we’re just going to keep him alongside two bigs each time because DeAndre isn’t a big and he doesn’t want to do or he can’t do or he can’t be effective doing all the other things that we ask of that second big during those particular minutes. Maybe that’s the decision that they come to and maybe that’s the information that they were able to get throughout the second half of the regular season and of course, what they saw in the playoffs as well. But offensively I don’t have too many. I don’t have too many concerns. I don’t have too many questions beyond the fact of just how much better can he be within this offense, how much more comfortable can he be within this offense? Because offensively, even when the Cavs didn’t have all the information that they have now, even when they weren’t entirely comfortable with how to best use him offensively, they were an elite basketball team with with DeAndre on the floor and DeAndre himself looked like a seamless fit on the offensive end of the floor. The questions to me and the numbers say the questions reside when it comes to the defensive end of the floor and it’s doing like all those other little things that he’s going to have to do to make an impact.
Ethan Sands: Chris, I think that’s extremely interesting, especially because of what Kobe Altman said about not knowing how multifaceted he was offensively. Like they understood what he brought to the team last year. Obviously he could score the basketball, but as a defender, that was something that was on his resume, Right? ACC Defensive Player of the Year. Someone that they knew could seamlessly fit next to Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. And we’ve talked to Jared Allen and Evan Mobley before, and they’ve said sometimes they lack the engagement necessary because they’re relying on the other one. And sometimes that happens when you’re being placed in a better system that you haven’t been in a while. Right. Because the Atlanta Hawks, we know, were not a defensive team last year, haven’t been a defensive team profile now. But I do think it’s. It’s going to be intriguing to see how he grows as a rebounder. That’s probably other than the assisting aspect of it. I do think rebounding is extremely important because at 6 foot 8, the Cavs need DeAndre Hunter to be a rebounder as well, especially if he’s going to be playing the three. Because if you’re not boxing out your man and a three man comes and gets aboard, that’s more of a problem than having a power forward at this stage. Right. And also the fact that he’s never ticked up to five rebounds per game in his NBA career at 6 foot 8 is a little bit concerning. That’s something we’ve talked about on the podcast in previous weeks. But I do think him as a defender was one of the biggest aspects of the Cavs were looking at last year when they went to go get him at the trade deadline. But for him to be ingratiated into the defense, it was. I remember asking him this. I was like, how excited are you to play next to Evan Mobley and. And Jared Allen? He said, well, I hated going up against them, so it’s going to be so much better now. So just understanding that even while he was trying to figure out himself on the offensive end, he was also trying to figure himself out on the defensive end because he had never played with two players like Jared Allen and Evan Mobley. Sure, you can say he played with Clint Capella at one point and Yaka Ng Kongwu. Those are not the same defenders as Jared Allen and Evan Mobley. No disrespect to them, that’s just true. And I just think what DeAndre Hunter is going to bring this season is going to show a full surface of what he’s capable to do on both ends of the floor. And we had this conversation last year about him playing the four, and he was strong enough, built enough, had the tenacity when required to manage those matchups, but it didn’t look easy for him, right. It didn’t look like that was something he would be willing to do. Guarding a player like Benedict Matheran, that’s more your speed, right? That’s more your identity. And I’m also interested if he’s going to be guarding more small forwards this coming season, how his footwork is going to change, how his speed and agility has influenced his growth this season, because that’s going to be something that’ll change from year to year, depending on what. Or game to game, depending on what he’s asked to do. So I’m definitely intrigued. And like I said earlier in today’s podcast, DeAndre Hunter was coveted as the best player during the off season by Kenny Atkinson. And I’m intrigued to see what he’s going to bring this season because of how important this year is for the Cavs. But also, I feel like this is a breakout year for almost all the key pieces. And it’s possible because of the internal development that Kenny Atkinson and the Cavs have instilled in this roster and what they’ve put at the highest peak of importance, which is player development.
Chris Fedor: I think there’s a real possibility, Ethan, that. That DeAndre is such a great fit. He shows so much versatility, he shows so much ability at both ends of the floor that. That Max just doesn’t get the starting job back. I think that’s possible if. If deandre plays to the level that the Caps have been talking about throughout the course of this off season. And look, sometimes you hear these things from coaches or you hear these things from members of the front office, and you just kind of roll your eyes. I don’t think too many people at this time last year were taking Kobe all that seriously when he was talking about Ty Jerome, MVP of September. But look what that turned into. That turned into Ty being one of the best six men in the NBA. So DeAndre Hunter is somebody who. He was already having a career year last year. He was already in the sixth man of the year conversation. And with the Cavs talking about him like this, it’s not them talking about Craig Porter Jr. Like this. You know what I mean? Like, it’s not them talking about Luke Travers like this. This is DeAndre Hunter. This is starting Caliber Wing DeAndre Hunter that they’re talking about like this. So if he. If he’s that for this team, like, there’s a real chance that. That Max just continues to come off the bench or Max plays a majority of his minutes at the shooting guard spot, as opposed to the small forward Spot. There are a lot of different things that could happen if, if DeAndre shows. Hey, like, this is my job. I am a starter quality small forward in today’s NBA. I can guard Jalen Brown. I can deal with Giannis at various points. I can give you 15 to 18 on a nightly basis. I can shoot it 37 to 41% from three point range. Like, I can fit alongside Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. I can fit alongside Donovan MITCHELL if, if DeAndre becomes that for this team. I do think there’s a strong possibility that Max never gets the starting job.
Ethan Sands: Back to your point. And I’m gonna end the podcast on this. Max. Truce. Being a shooting guard would be a good thing for this team. It would be a very, very, very good thing for this team when it comes to the defensive element of the game. Right. Because we know Macro’s primary position is a shooting guard. Because he although has the tenacity, the hunger, the grit to guard small forwards. Kind of similar to the situation with DeAndre Hunter and our forwards. He is not a small forward. Max Struus is a shooting guard. And if you tell me that you can have a lineup where you put Donovan at the 1, Max Druce at the 2, DeAndre at the 3, Evan Mobley at the 4 and Jared Allen at the 5. Woo wee. We are cooking. That is the lineup that feels like it is going to be devastating. And it’s just like again the trade deadline last year where they were getting players back from injury. Right. You just mentioned it. Potentially Max Druce doesn’t come back until the All Star break. Well, he’ll be here for the trade deadline and it’ll be like we’re making an acquisition off the market. Right. So I just think this is a perfect opportunity for DeAndre Hunter to take the time to get ingratiated into the starting lineup, to get comfortable with it and then also to dominate it because you understand what he is capable of and we talked about the importance of him playing alongside the core four. This feels like he’s going to force the hand of Kenny Atkinson to do that. Obviously we in previous weeks had talked about Dean Wade. I think his situation has changed because of the Thomas Bryant acquisition, The Larry Nance Jr. Acquisition, understanding what he brings to the team and that’s a defensive presence and how that could be used in spot minutes, how that could be used at the small forward or the power forward spot. I think it also helps him not have to play the five man as much because Thomas Bryant is here. I think there are different elements that are going to change because of the acquisitions that have been made and obviously because of the injuries that have taken place this off season. It’s going to be a very interesting training camp to see how Kenny Atkinson uses all of these players, especially after signing Thomas Bryant just a week before training camp began.
Chris Fedor: And this team is more dynamic, it’s more versatile. There are different lineup combinations that they can use because a lot of these guys have multifaceted skill sets. Think about this, Ethan. There is maybe one guy on the roster that can’t shoot threes. That’s a weapon for this team. They want to shoot threes, they want to space the floor. Now they’ve got more guys that can do that. They’ve got more playable depth. That’s important. And to them, you know, based on their current lineup construction. If you look at last year’s team, there were, I’d say two of the top nine that potentially could have gotten played off the floor in a playoff series. Ty Jerome, Isaac Okoro. Now, if you look at like their most important pieces in their mind, their most important pieces, their top eight in the rotation, their top nine in the rotation, none of those guys are going to get played in their mind, are going to get played off the floor in a playoff series. That’s a difference. Just more ways that Kenny Atkinson can go, more guys that he can trust, more two way players than what they had last year. And I know that they didn’t make drastic improvements or drastic changes to this roster, but they didn’t have to. Like, if, if, if they felt in their mind that their core four was good enough and the main components of the roster were good enough, then they just needed to supplement. They just need to make moves around the margins. And if that was their goal and that was their goal, you can say that they succeeded in doing that because of Lonzo Ball, because of Larry Nance Jr. Because of maybe Jalen Tyson being ready for a bigger opportunity, because of Sam Merrill maybe being ready. And some of those guys, it remains to be seen, but the theoretical idea of this roster versus last year’s roster, it just gives them more possibilities and it gives them a different ceiling, I think, at both ends of the floor. Because there aren’t as many lineup decisions that Kenny is going to have to make where he’s sacrificing one end of the floor for the betterment of the other.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, Chris. And I think that’s beautifully said and I think that’s important for all the aspects that we’re looking at for this coming season. There’s a lot of excitement behind it, but the only thing that could deter me from believing that the Cavs are not the number one team in the Eastern Conference after all the rules they’ve made this offseason is health injury history riddled with them. This roster is so I do think that is the most important thing going into the season. And Kenny Atkinson and Kobe Altman have ensured us that there is a plan set in place for every individual player for their benefit to ensure that they will be ready and peaking at the playoff time. Because as we know, that’s the most important time of the year for the Cleveland Cavaliers. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the One and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy Buy some subscribing to celtax. Chris is back. So now the hey Chris pods can return. Send in your questions and we will have them ready for training camp next week. The only way you can do that is signing up for a 14 day free trial or visiting cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.