CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands, Chris Fedor and Jimmy Watkins break down the Cavs’ 118-117 preseason loss to the Chicago Bulls, and what it revealed about the team’s backcourt opportunities.
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Takeaways:
De’Andre Hunter’s Expanded Role and Organizational Confidence
De’Andre Hunter stood out as a major focal point in the Cavaliers’ preseason opener, drawing a “Kawhi Leonard” comparison from a teammate for his smooth mid-range game. With Max Strus recovering from surgery, Hunter is stepping into the starting lineup, a role the organization has long envisioned for him. The front office views Hunter as their solution to a years-long problem at small forward, a belief reinforced by president of basketball operations Koby Altman. The team is making a concerted effort to get him more involved, and his offseason communication with Kenny Atkinson has seemingly empowered him, leading to an encouraging performance that included strong rebounding and a more confident offensive approach.
Craig Porter Jr. Seizes His Opportunity
Craig Porter Jr. made a strong case for the full-time backup point guard role, especially with Darius Garland sidelined. Porter looked noticeably improved, telling reporters he worked extensively on his three-point shot in the offseason, a weakness opponents previously exploited. The work paid off in a 17-point performance where he went 5-for-5 from beyond the arc. His ability to create out of the pick-and-roll remains a key asset, and he appeared more mature and focused. With Lonzo Ball’s minutes expected to be carefully managed, Porter has a clear opportunity to solidify a crucial role in the rotation.
Jaylon Tyson’s New Defensive-Minded Identity
Despite a poor shooting night (0-for-5), Jaylon Tyson made a significant impact by embracing the role the team requires of him: a defensive stopper who does the “little things.” The speakers compared his potential defensive style to that of the departed Isaac Okoro, noting his physicality, strength, and willingness to fight over screens. The coaching staff’s message to Tyson was not to work on playmaking, but to find ways to contribute positively even when his shot isn’t falling. His ability to stay engaged defensively, generate deflections, and play with high energy suggests he understands that his path to consistent minutes is through his defensive acumen, not his scoring.
Concerns Emerge Over Lonzo Ball’s Health and Speed
A significant concern raised was the performance of Lonzo Ball, who one speaker described as looking like he was playing “in mud” during the preseason opener. While Atkinson stated pregame that Ball retained his speed, his on-court movement appeared clunky and lacked fluidity. The team already plans to manage his workload heavily — holding him out of back-to-backs and limiting his minutes. If his athletic ability is compromised, it could create more opportunities for backup guards like Craig Porter Jr. and wings like Jaylon Tyson, fundamentally altering the dynamics of the second unit.
Key Developmental Progress for Evan Mobley
The team’s young players showed signs of development, though their paths to impact differ. Evan Mobley displayed a welcome aggressive offensive mindset, and it was noted he is working with former shooting coach Andrew Olson to add a trailing, on-the-move three-pointer to his game.
Tyrese Proctor dazzles in preseason debut
Conversely, second-round pick Tyrese Proctor had a very efficient and mature debut, scoring 14 points in 12 minutes. However, the speakers noted that even with three rotation players out, Proctor was still the 11th man to enter the game. This suggests that while he is a promising long-term project, his path to meaningful rookie minutes is difficult due to the team’s depth.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. Joining me Today, Chris Fedor, cleveland.comcast beat reporter and Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com columnist and guys, we are coming to you after the Cavs first preseason game against the Chicago Bulls. And in the Kenny Atkinson era, they still have yet to win a preseason game. They lost four straight last year. They’re now 0-1 when it comes to the preseason this year. Kenny Atkinson said he does not want that to be the case for this season. Chris, I know there were not a whole lot of expectations coming into the preseason game. Obviously it is preseason still. We don’t want to hype up the anything Too large, but 118, 117 loss for the Cavs. Isaac Okoro made his homecoming in the preseason. What did you make of tonight’s contest?
Chris Fedor: I think the thing that stood out to me is that, you know, a lot of the things that we talked about as, as storylines coming into this season kind of played themselves out. And, and I think some of the guys that, that we had questions about took a step toward trying to answer those. Again, just one preseason game. You don’t want to go overboard, but we were asking ourselves, is Craig Porter Jr. Ready to be the full time backup point guard for this team? With Darius Garland being out at the beginning of the season, Craig looks different. He’s in better shape. I talked to him after the game. He told me how much he worked throughout the course of the off season. He said he took more shots this offseason than any point throughout the course of his career and a majority of those shots were three pointers because he had recognized that a majority of the teams playing against him would just go under screens. And he feels like he’s a really, really good pick and roll player. And if he can get teams to honor his outside shot and not be able to go under pick and roll stuff, then he can make plays for himself. He can make plays for others. So Craig Porter Jr. I think was one of the standouts for tonight. The other thing we were talking about is one of the changes that the Cavs are making this year with DeAndre going into the starting lineup. Because Max Drus is recovering from off season foot surgery, it looks like the Cavs are going to be 2 for 2 in calling off season MVPs. Last year the off season MVP was tied to Rome and he gets himself into the sixth man of the year contest. And now DeAndre Hunter as Larry Nance Jr put it following the game, looks like Kawhi Leonard out there. Again, not going to go overboard, but when DeAndre was such a significant piece at the trade deadline last year, they had big plans for him last year that didn’t materialize. Had a career year with the Atlanta Hawks last year before arriving here in Cleveland. And then you hear all this stuff about what he’s doing in the off season, how good he looks in the off season, and then see him do that in the rhythm of the game, in the flow of the offense, the different usage that he was getting, I would say that that is very, very encouraging. And the other thing is Jaylon Tyson. Jaylon Tyson probably had the most impactful and productive 0.045 shooting game that, that you can think of. Because for him, like his impact, his role for this team is not going to be defined by how many shots he makes and how many points he scores. But can he do the little things to fit into the fabric of the team? Can he do the little things that make him an impactful role player? And I thought you saw a guy understand that even when he isn’t scoring, even when he isn’t making shots, how do I impact the game? And you saw signs of Jaylon Tyson understanding that, especially on the defensive end of the floor.
Jimmy Watkins: I watched Jaylon Tyson tonight and my takeaway was, oh, they’ve got Isaac Okoro at home. They traded Azikoro and then they made another Azakoro and then we just restart the, the jump shot experiment. New, new hope on that one. Isaac’s a great player. I’m not. I don’t think Jalen Tyson is quite the perimeter defender that Isaac Koro is. That’s a bit of an overstate, but some of the help defense that Jaylon Tyson was showing tonight as a coral wasn’t doing some of that stuff at the rim either. So that’s interesting. Overall, I’m with Chris DeAndre Hunter. The Kawhi call is such a good call, particularly when. And again, that’s not a real comparison, but particularly that shot when it’s just a couple of dribbles and I give you a little shoulder and I hit a mid Ranger over you. That is literally the shot that like 85% of NBA defenses are designed to allow. And if you can make that consistently, then I just don’t know what you do, particularly with all the other moving parts of this Cavs offense. Also in the DeAndre Hunter W category tonight, seven rebounds call people getting rebounds. You love to see it in the preseason and I did a little a quick B ball reference to DeAndre Hunter last year had nine games with at least seven rebounds. And DeAndre Hunter’s average shot attempts during those games 13.8. Sometimes this is a simple game. You give people shots, you make them feel involved. Other stuff happens. DeAndre Hunter at one point I think in the second quarter crashed super hard on the glass and fought like two dudes for a rebound and got put back. I’ve not seen that very many times before from him. I’m new to the Dion to watching DeAndre Hunter every night, but I have not seen that very much before and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he did that on a night where he felt very involved early. Even when he wasn’t getting shots early, he was getting consistent touches and I think that was on purpose. I love Devin Mobley’s approach tonight. Team high 12 field goal attempts. Felt like he forced a couple. Hell yeah. Keep forced him. Take some bad shots. Evan. In relation to that, I like Donovan’s approach tonight. Now it’s the preseason and it’s, it’s a team wide edict to get other people involved right now like DeAndre Hunter is a focal point. It’s no coincidence that he had a big night tonight. That’s been a off season talking point to Chris’s point about things coming to fruition. Evan Mobley is an evergreen focal point. So I’ll be interested to see how this, how the Donovan approach evolves as the games start to matter more. But I loved what I saw from him tonight. Really just letting the game come to him and picking spots, various parents, letting the machine run. And then if you need, if you need to step in, you step in. One nitpick with Evan Mobley. Can we speed up the three point shot a little bit just like a smidge. He looks comfortable taking it, but I just think the more he makes, the more teams are going to guard him with a little bit more earnestness. And I just think that like he’s going to have to get that off a little bit quicker. We were picking nets. We’re talking about a 6 foot 10 dude who’s who shot like 40% from 3 last year and looks just as comfortable if not more so this year just in a pick. And yeah, Craig was smooth tonight to that point.
Chris Fedor: About Evan Mobley, I think it’s fascinating because he was going through his pregame workout and toward the end of his pregame workout tonight he introduced something different into his routine and it was trailing on the move threes from both wings, and he’s got a new coach that he’s working with these days. It’s Andrew Olson, the Cavs former shooting coach. He’s a California guy just like Evan. They’ve been around each other for a number of years. But I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Cavs old shooting coach, who is known for taking Colin Sexton and turning him into a respectable shooter in the past, taking Isaac Okoro and making his percentages jump. Now, he never became the shooter that the Cavs needed him to be, but his percentages jumped significantly, significantly from the time that he was drafted until his his time ended with the Cavs and Andrew Olsen again was a part of that. So to see Evan Mobley toward the end of his pregame workout is a subtle thing, obviously, but trailing on the move threes, that can be really, really fascinating for the Cavs. And I know that the Cavs are encouraging him to do those kinds of things.
Ethan Sands: Okay, so we got into a lot of different places with that first segment. I want to dive into each person kind of individually and go a little bit more in depth. Obviously went into Evan Mobley. DeAndre Hunter is an interesting case just because we’ve heard so much about him. When it comes to this off season and the off season MVP and all these different things. DeAndre Hunter is a guy that needed the confidence to be able to do what he’s doing because of the system and all the offensive schemes that they have are trying to put them into. But the other part of it is Kenny Atkinson has been like, hey, you still need to take some shots, even though you might not feel comfortable taking them.
Ethan Sands: It’s all hunky dory if you are taking nice shots, if you’re taking clean shots. But we still, especially with Max Truce out, especially with Darius Garland out, we need your offensive productivity, even if it’s going to be uncomfortable. You he said that after tonight’s game talking about he felt like DeAndre Hunter didn’t take a few, passed up on a few, and you need to take the open ones. That’s kind of been the overarching sentiment when it comes to all of the shooters this year, especially last year as well when it comes to Kenny Atkinson’s thought process. But I thought it was interesting when we talk about how efficient DeAndre Hunter is and Kenny Atkinson actually pushing that narrative a little bit further.
Chris Fedor: I want to go back to about two weeks ago and I think something happened in the press conference with with Kenny Atkinson and president of basketball operations Kobe Altman that might have gotten overlooked because they talked for 55 minutes. But there, there was a moment in the press conference where the guys were talking about the injury to Max Struse and how the Cavs were going to navigate that and what was the plan at small forward. And Kobe said something that kind of shined a light on, on how The Cavs view DeAndre Hunter and how they looked at last year’s. It was a trade deadline prize, really. I mean, DeAndre Hunter was somebody that the Cavs had wanted for years, going all the way back to when he entered the NBA and he was in the draft and they had the fifth overall pick and, and they got leapfrogged essentially for DeAndre and they got the choice taken out of their hands. But even after that, they had conversations with Atlanta about, hey, is DeAndre available? What would it take? So this is somebody that has been on their radar for years and he was their trade deadline prize. And DeAndre said, Hey, I felt like I was wanted, not needed. But, but Kobe Altman, when he was talking about replacing Max Strus and he was asked about the small forward position, he quit. He jumped in to the response of Kenny Atkinson and said, I thought we solved that when we traded for DeAndre. The Cavs looked at DeAndre as like their answer to a years long problem at small forward. And I know Max Stru brings a different element and the Cavs love him in the starting lineup and the numbers support that. And Kenny Atkinson likes all the different things that Max brings to the table and we’ve talked about that over and over and over again. But the caliber of player that DeAndre is, it’s just different. He is looked at as a clear cut, bonafide starting caliber wing in today’s NBA. Those guys are very, very valuable. And like I said, he was in the middle of a career year with the Atlanta Hawks when the Cavs traded for him. And they had big plans for how they were going to incorporate him. And then they had big plans for how they were going to unleash him in the playoffs. No matter what the matchup was going to be. Was it New York, was it Indiana, was it going to be Boston, whoever Orlando? They believed in DeAndre Hunter, the playoff performer for. For a variety of reasons. It just like it didn’t come to fruition the way that the Cavs were hoping. But the bottom line is the view of DeAndre and his importance and his fit with this team that hasn’t wavered. And I think for Kobe Altman, like it gives him a second sense of, of belief that that is different to a different level than what it was with Max Struse. And I think Kenny Atkinson spending time with DeAndre this offseason has helped. And I think DeAndre spending time around his teammates, having text conversations with Kenny, video breakdowns with Kenny, all these different things that make him feel more of a part of it and just empowered in a different kind of way. I think that has a chance to bring out the best in DeAndre.
Ethan Sands: Especially when you talk about like these conversations that Kenny Atkinson was having over the summer, like sending film at 1am, 2am, 3am because Kenny is a psycho when it comes to film watching and will do it all day, every day. And obviously also potentially thinking about, oh, DeAndre’s on the West coast, so it’s three hours behind. Maybe he’s still up. Maybe he’ll watch this, maybe he’ll get back to me. All these different conversations. I just think him having the thought process of all these things and also Deander being like, oh, he’s thinking about me at 1am Eastern time. That’s something that we’ll have to take an overarching look at when it comes to the end of the season, but right now it’s very promising. But I do want to get back into what we were talking about with Craig Porter Jr. As well. And also just Tyler, Tyrese Proctor. I don’t want him to get left out of this conversation as well. Tyrese Proctor was 5 of 6 on the field, 3 of 4 from deep, and had 14 points in just 12 minutes. Craig Porter Jr. Had 17 points in 18 minutes. He was 5 of 5 from 3 point range. And obviously, guys, we’ve talked a lot about Craig Porter Jr. Over the years and he’s been a guy that we knew. The area where he needed to improve the most outside of work ethic was his shooting. And for him to come into the first preseason game and have a performance like this, I think it’s telling not only to the work that he was putting in, but what he was being told behind the scenes of what the organization thought about him and the opportunity that was going to be placed in front of him, he would just have to take it. And especially with Darius Garland being out in this situation. Jimmy, I’m curious what your thoughts were on Craig Porter Jr. I know you said he was smooth, but this is a guy that came into the NBA, knew where his spots were, knew what he was able to do offensively, defensively, but there’s still areas to grow, and yet this guy is already kind of taking those leaps and Bounds in Game 1. Obviously, we don’t want to overreact, but it’s important for him to make these shooting grows.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah, I’m always going to be a big sample size. I need to see more kind of guy. When we’re talking about people with shaky shooting histories trying to disprove that. That’s the way this league works, too. The good news for Craig Porter Jr. Is this. If this, what we saw tonight, is real, he’s going to have a lot more opportunities to shoot him because teams are going to keep going under screens for a while. That’s. That’s the good news. That can also be like that. The burden of proof is high, and there will be opportunities for him to prove himself. It’s also watching him tonight. The threes were great, and he looked really comfortable, particularly firing him off the dribble. I. I feel the same watching Craig shoot a spot of three that I do watching Evan, which is like, come on, get it up there. Hurry up, please. Again, if no one’s guarding you, who cares? Take your time. But eventually, if that’s going to be one of your calling cards, it needs to get up a little quicker. To me, it’s seeing him do that on the same night where you see the other stuff that makes Craig Porter Jr. Really fun, which is the pick and roll, ball handling, and the way he can create out of that. I mean, we’ve talked a lot about where’s the second unit creation going to come from and when. When Lonzo was on the ball tonight. And this is. This is Lonzo’s blessing and his curse. He was getting off it really fast. Almost too fast sometimes. In fact, I will say sometimes too fast. Like, Lonzo comes around the screen sometimes, and he is almost like, not even around the screen yet. He’s already throwing, like, a jump pass, which is. It’s great. An unselfish tactic, an unselfish spirit within you, but at the same time, we need you to put a little pressure on the defense before you start making those passes sometimes.
Chris Fedor: Right?
Jimmy Watkins: Craig Porter Jr.
Chris Fedor: The.
Jimmy Watkins: The way he handles and the way he can slither into the lane and then make slick passes. I mean, that was. He had. I think he had for us this night. And almost every single one of them was like, Craig Porter Jr. Is creating all of this and then just dumping it off for someone else to make a really easy bucket. That. That part of it is really, really good. But he’s Kind of always had that. But to. To unlock that fully, like Chris is saying, you need to have defenses respect your jump shot or you need to be able to make them pay when they don’t respect your jump shot. Otherwise, it’s much easier to guard you off the dribble. So, yeah, I just can’t be. Again, I’m not. I’m not put aside the shooting. I need to see more of it. But in a one game sample size, you can’t pick any of this with Craig. It was really, really promising what he did tonight.
Chris Fedor: Guys, I don’t think we can ignore the Lonzo component of this and how it ties into Craig either. Did anybody else think Alonzo looked super slow tonight? It felt like he was in mud. It felt like he had cement boots on. So I think it’s something that we have to continue to monitor. You know, Kenny Atkinson, before the game, unprompted, actually talked about Lonzo and said, hey, he still has his speed and his quickness despite all of the knee issues that he has dealt with in the past. But against super athletic teams, against uptempo teams, is that going to play to the same level? Something to monitor? Again, these are just observations. They’re not definitive declarations and they’re not conclusions as well. This is the first preseason game, but if Alonzo is going to struggle to keep up athletically and from a speed perspective against certain teams in certain matchups, then that means more opportunity for Craig Porter Jr. And Lonzo’s not going to play back to backs and he’s going to have his minutes limited throughout the course of the regular season. He’s essentially going to be in bubble wrap during the regular season. So that means more opportunities for Craig Porter Jr. And you just sense a different level of maturity, a different focus, a different determination from Craig. And I think all of that is. Is very, very meaningful. He has done all the things that the Cavs have asked of him behind the scenes. It does feel like he’s had a bit of an epiphany about how important this is to him and about how seriously he needs to take his craft and with all of the things related to Lonzo. And I also think that the Cavs prefer Lonzo in a different kind of role than backup point guard so that they can explore all the different dynamics to Lonzo’s game and the versatility that he brings to the game. Craig is the backup point guard and this is the opportunity that he’s been waiting for. And this is how the Cavs as an organization have viewed him and he just hasn’t. He just hasn’t shown it. He just hasn’t done it. So I thought it was very, very encouraging. Different facets of his game tonight. And I do think the Lonzo piece of this kind of ties in to that whole thing. And I think the Lonzo piece of this also ties into the Jaylon Tyson component as well, because we were looking at Lonzo as the sixth or seventh man in the rotation. Right. So that means Craig gets pushed a little bit further back and Jalen gets pushed a little bit further back. And if they’re closer, if both those guys are closer to 10, then when the team is at full strength, where do they fit? But if they’re going to approach the regular season the way that they are with Lonzo, then it’s easier to slide both of those guys in.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. And I think there’s two points off of this, maybe even three, but I’m going to try and keep the first one short. Craig Porter Jr. When we talk about coming into the season, we’ve heard the things behind the scene. He needed to get his body in better shape than what it was. Right. He was in the middle of the pack. Now he’s at probably 90% of what his body capacity is. And obviously we, we look back to his rookie season where he was getting more opportunities and was asked to do more because of the Darius injury then sophomore season, it feels like you’re not as needed. So you pull off the gas a little bit now. Hey, contracts coming up. One, two. Hey, Darius is out. We need you again. And obviously during the summer, you hear that, I think that actually clicks a little bit more for him. And especially when it comes to opportunity. That’s one of the most important things for a young player. Obviously. Then we get into the Lonzo ball situation. Did y’ all see Lonzo ball slip out of his shoe tonight?
Chris Fedor: Yeah, it was clunky for Lonzo tonight for sure.
Ethan Sands: And he’s getting up and down the floor fine. But it’s not the same fluidness. And Chris, I think you said it well, the concrete shoes. And then to find a way to slip out of those shoes is kind of crazy. And then the situation where what that could have led to, injury wise, that’s a whole different conversation. We can get to that a different day. But Jaylon Tyson, Jimmy, you got into this a little bit earlier and I think it was very interesting and I wrote about it after the game. Isaac Okoro is gone. And pregame, Kenny Atkinson also said, hey, Lonzo is a great defender. We traded Isaac Okoro in part because we know what Lonzo can do defensively, but we still need a stopper. We need a guy that is not Lonzo to be able to do some of the things that Isaac Coro does defensively. Because Lonzo Ball, as Chris mentioned, not going to play back to backs, probably going to be limited at 20 minutes a game. Craig Porter Jr. Too small to do that. Six foot six is what Lonzo is. Person that kind of matches into that fold. 6 foot 5, Isaac Okoro, 6 foot 6. Lonzo Blanc, Jalen Tyson. And we know that’s what he has been told since arriving at this organization, what his role could look like if he wanted to get minutes on the floor. And I think it says a lot that the Cavs were willing to put him in the starting lineup after Sam Merrow was out tonight with an abductor injury. And that is interesting to me or important to me because of what that says about the organization’s thinking, what the depth chart might look like. And also going back to when Jaylon Tyson made his first start, how Kenny Atkinson and the organization viewed him next to the other core members of this team and how that could help him play to their level. Jimmy, what did you think of how Jalen Tyson was kind of connected in all these different things? And also the similarities between Isaac and Jalen, but also understanding that in training camp in preseason there were talks about Jaylon Tyson being one of the best shooters and tonight could have been a fluke. Or are you worried about it?
Jimmy Watkins: Connect with Craig, Jalen and Lonzo here. Come watch me spin these plays. What if the Cows just think Lonzo’s a 3 MV win, you know, and they. Then they need someone else to. Dude, there’s a. There’s a Larry Nance corollary ear too, but I’m not gonna. That’s too many plates for me to spam right now. But if Lonzo ball is a three and D wing, then Craig Porter Jr. Should have opportunities even when Lonzo plays. And then when Lonzo isn’t playing, that should open up opportunities for Both Craig Porter Jr. And Jalen Tyson.
Jimmy Watkins: And I was. I was asking Jared Allen today. I’d shoot around. We talked about this in the pot a little bit about how they did two game Malays. Here’s just that the Cavs are trying to dispel organization wide mission to dispel the idea that the regular season doesn’t matter. Good luck, guys. But One person who could help them do that, I think is Jaylon Tyson, who’s coming at this all bright eyed and bushy tailed and is just, you know, so eager to get his opportunity. He’s seen everything they’ve seen last year, but you saw it from the bench and now he’s going to see it on the court and he’s going to be playing with so much ferocity and energy. He’s just, he’s just gonna be, he’s gonna be a little bit of happy to be there for him. I think that can, that can be contagious. That kind of energy can be contagious. There’s a place for anyone in the rotation if you, if you’re making the kind of plays that Jaylen Tyson was making tonight on a consistent basis. Right now, the shooting thing, this is the not fun part, maybe the most is a coral thing about Jaylen Tyson tonight. Shadow for boxing three. All right. And that’s an issue in the regular season kind of who cares, right? Because the Cavs, we’ve, we saw them last year. The regular season offense is a juggernaut and Jalen Tyson is going to be surrounded by four capable offensive players, three at minimum, basically all the time. So they can figure out a way. He also is more on ball. What we’re talking about, Lonzo as a, as a short roller, as a screener. The other day. Jaylon Tyson has more reps on the ball and reading defenses from his college days than Isaac Coro did. Isaac Coro came in as a one and done guy off of a really freaking good Auburn team that had a lot of other really good players on it. So he was kind of playing his Cavs role in college a little bit. Jalen Tyson had, has been that guy. But Jaylon Tyson has also, he also spent a full season at Cal just getting everything thrown at him by defenses. And I think that can be a difference maker for him. It should be noted, as much as you don’t want to overreact to Craig Porter Jr going 5 for 5 from 3, you should also not overreact to Jaylon Tyson going 0 for 5 from 3. Two things can be true there. It’s just that, you know, we need to, we need to see both of them prove it and Jaylon Tyson didn’t prove it tonight. So there’s, it’s make or miss league from that perspective. Like what else do you want me to say? But the ways that they can get creative with Jalen Dyson, I think he can be a little bit more Useful or at least more comfortable in the roles that they tried to put Isaac Okoro in when they didn’t know what else to do with them because Jalen just has more experience with the ball in his hands.
Chris Fedor: I think when it comes to Jalen, I think there is more of an opportunity to him to slide into that Isaac role just because from a physicality standpoint, from a body type standpoint, the style of defender that he could potentially become, I say potentially because he’s got to show it and he’s got to prove it. But the style of defender that he can potentially become, it’s different than Lonzo. Lonzo’s not going to be a stopper necessarily. Lonzo is going to be a deflection guy. Lonzo’s going to get in the passing lanes. Lonzo is going to use his IQ to get in the right spots. He’s going to be able to switch and recover and stuff like that. He’s going to be able to finish possessions with rebounds. There are just a lot of different ways that Lonzo can be used in a lot of different ways that he can impact on defense. Jalen’s going to be handsy, he’s going to be physical. He’s got strength to him, he’s got girth to him. He’s willing to fight over screens because of that level of physicality. So from that standpoint, it does feel more Isaac y just in terms of of his style. Sometimes he gets lost on defense. He’s got to stay more focused that way. But there were a couple of different times where he was fighting over a screen and then he would switch and then he’d switch onto somebody else. Then he’d have to play weak side help defender. And he did that really, really well on a couple of possessions in a row, and then he finished those with blocks or deflections or just making things difficult for Chicago on the offensive end of the floor. And if he can be, that’s what the Cavs are asking him to be. Those are the things that the Cavs want of him. When they had their exit meeting at the end of the season, it wasn’t, hey, man, go work on your playmaking. Hey, man, go work on your ball handling. It was, do the little things that you’re going to have to do on this basketball team. If you were in Atlanta, it’d be different. If you were in Washington, Charlotte, somewhere else like that, it would be different. But this team is demanding you to be something so that you can fit, so that you can get consistent playing time so that you make sense based on the other personnel that you’re going to share the floor with. And again, I thought tonight I’m not going to look at the oh for five. I’m not going to look at the three point shot. I’m going to look at the fact of when he’s not scoring, when he’s not making shots, can he find a way to impact the game in a positive way? And I felt like the eye test, whatever the numbers are going to say, I felt like the eye test showed.
Jimmy Watkins: That he did, that, he kept shooting. That’s important too.
Chris Fedor: That’s true. He’s probably never going to have a problem with that. If anything, they might have to rein.
Ethan Sands: Him in a little bit, especially coming from Kyle when he was the man taking all those shots.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Ethan Sands: But I do think one of the main things that I said during our exit podcast about what we felt some of these Cavs players needed to improve on heading into the next season was I needed the game to slow down for Jalen Tyson. I needed the game to look like it wasn’t sped up.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Ethan Sands: Because there were times last year where he would catch the ball in transition and either try and take it himself, put it on the deck or kick it up and just lose the ball because he was trying to move too fast. That didn’t happen tonight.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Ethan Sands: Jaylon Tyson looked more comfortable in the offense, whether that’s because of the training camp process where they were doing so much pace drills and he had the ball in his hands more because of what Kenny Atkinson wants to do with the kick aheads this season, maybe that’s it. It also could just be a maturity thing where Jaylon Tyson is recognizing and just processing the game at a better speed, at a better level than he was in his rookie season. And obviously that’s normal.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Ethan Sands: And I think when we talk about a player that is going to step into a bigger role this season, that’s exactly what you needed from him, is for him to evolve in the processing speed of what he’s seeing, the maturity level of what he’s going to be able to do. He already had the work ethic, which I think is important as well, but the defensive acumen as well is going to be make or miss in his case.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Ethan Sands: But I think there’s so many different aspects to these players games, but the mental side for this team in particular, whether that’s mental toughness, mental awareness, mental processing, that’s going to be extremely evident in how this team is able to have Success or failure at the end of the season. And yes, we’re talking about that after preseason game one.
Chris Fedor: I mean, I agree with that. And I think for Jalen last year to go through the stuff that he went through, and it wasn’t bad or anything along those lines, but you’re talking about a first overall pick that couldn’t get on the floor during his rookie season. 453 total minutes. That was different for him. I mean, he was Mr. Everything at Cal. He was Mr. Never come off the floor at Cal. So for him to go to that and then have the excitement of being a first round pick to being out of the rotation, rarely getting an opportunity, going down to the G League for multiple stints, it obviously made him motivated and hungry. But I also think it kind of opened up his eyes to, okay, like, what do I have to do and how do I go about doing those things? And maybe it’s not things that I’ve done in the past, or maybe it’s not things that are best suited for my game, but it’s what the team requires of me. And there’s like a maturity to him that, that I’m seeing based on everything that he went through. Last year, his first press conference following the draft, he was all bombastic, right? And he was talking about playing time this and playing time that and don’t overlook me and potential rookie of the year, that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? And. And I think he was humbled last year, and I think that was an. A positive eye opener for a guy who needed to reevaluate some things internally, but pushing through that and recognizing some of the other ways that he had to. To work on his game, to help this team, I think that’s a very, very important growth step for a young player. You talked about Tyrese Proctor, and I don’t think we can diminish what he did tonight. He was very, very good. The things that the Cavs have said about him throughout the course of the off season and in training camp, you can see those things. There’s a maturity to his game. I don’t think there are too many questions about just his overall skill, his overall feel for the game and his overall readiness from that standpoint. I do wonder about the level of physicality that he can handle. I do wonder about the position that he would play and how his body would hold up and if he’s ready for everything that the NBA is going to throw at him. So I’m not trying to diminish what he did Tonight, in his first preseason game, he was really, really good, shot the ball well, made good decisions, in control, a level of maturity, all that kind of stuff. But he was guy 11 tonight, guys. He was guy 11 tonight. And the situation was no Sam Merrill, no Darius Garland, and no Max Struse. And if he’s guy 11 with those circumstances, there’s just. There’s just not a place for him on this team right now as a rookie. And the only way that he would get a real opportunity is if things went really, really poorly for the team. There were a variety of injuries ahead of him on the depth chart, or some of the guys ahead of him on the depth chart just were ineffective for a long stretch of time. So I know Kenny after the game said, you know, tyrese is going to make it hard on us, and we’re going to have these hard decisions. The math isn’t mathing on that one. It’s. It’s very similar to me, to what Kenny was saying in the lead up to last year’s regular season about Jaylon Tyson. A. Don’t overlook him. His Cal coach, Mark Madsen, he’s saying, like, jalen’s gonna make it really, really difficult on you. Jalen’s gonna find his way to the floor. And there just wasn’t a spot for him because the math didn’t math for him. And it’s the same thing with Tyrese Proctor. If he’s gonna be guy 11 when three rotational players are missing, and I know at the beginning of the year, Darius is gonna be missing and Max is gonna be missing, but when Sam comes back, now we’re talking about guy 12. And then when Darius gets back, we’re talking about guy 13. And then when Max eventually gets back, we’re talking about guy 14. So it’s just very, very difficult to see the pathway to Tyrese Proctor getting meaningful, consequential minutes as a rookie. But, man, for a second round pick, late second round at that, 49th overall. It does feel like the Cavs might have something here in their player development program with him.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah, he’s going to make it hard on us. That’s another preseason bingo.
Chris Fedor: We might.
Jimmy Watkins: We got to be close to bingo, right? We got to be getting close here with all these. With all these preseason bingo quotes that we’re marking space.
Chris Fedor: We only have eight of them. I just don’t know if.
Jimmy Watkins: In the right order. Yeah. Just depends on what. Which sheet you have. Someone has to call it same spirit as what Chris was saying. Tyrese Proctor stood out. He’s supposed to stand out in that part of the game. Right. Because at that part of the game, he’s playing with a lot of dudes that he would have been seeing in college last year or thereabouts, you know, so it’s good that he stood out, particularly given, again, the 49th picks aren’t always standing out in those situations. We kind of had an idea when they picked him that he was under.
Chris Fedor: One of them that didn’t stand out for two, three straight years.
Jimmy Watkins: Right. We kind of had the idea he was underdrafted when they picked him. Our eyes are now confirming that. That’s really good. But I think particularly, like, when once I saw Craig Porter Jr tonight before Tyrese took the court, and he looked great. When I saw Craig Porter Jr. And I was, oh, yeah, this is gonna be tough. This is gonna be tough for Tyrese to get consistent minutes, and that’s not a bad thing. So if Tyrese Proctor can have a Jaylon Tyson like rookie season, I think there’s a lot of learning that can go on here and a lot of habits to be soaked up. And even I’ve been just interested to see, like, how the Cavs want to balance him, like, between getting him some time in the G League and letting him be around the team a bunch. But him just being around these dudes in the weight room, that alone, that can make a huge impact on Tyrese Proctor’s future, particularly because that’s. That’s the one question that they have about him.
Chris Fedor: Yeah. And Donovan has basically taken him under his wing throughout the course of the off season, and there’s value to that. And even if he doesn’t get meaningful on court playing time, being in an NBA program around NBA coaching, around NBA players, around a guy like Donovan who is kind of becoming his mentor, all that stuff is going to be very, very valuable.
Ethan Sands: Don’t want to get too far ahead on anything just yet, but I just think it’s so interesting when we talk about all these different things and how long this season is, guys, because we have so far to go, but there are already so many things to talk about and so many things on our minds and so many things that are happening around us and around this team.
Jimmy Watkins: My Larry Nance corollary tomorrow. This Larry Nance corollary is special.
Chris Fedor: I. I do think the plan is for the starters and the regulars to play more in the second preseason game against Chicago and then not play against Boston. Now, the Sam Merrill thing kind of throws a wrench into what was already pre planned by Kenny Atkinson and he has to revisit a few different things because is Sam going to be available? Is he not? Are they going to be cautious with him for the entire preseason? But but I do think logic points to you and I do think the plan is none of these guys in Boston. Boston becomes the extended look at the training camp invites and the end of end of roster guys.
Ethan Sands: And that’s Chris Fedor with our little insight to end the podcast. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send in your questions for our weekly hey Chris episode or just conversate with me, Chris and Jimmy on a daily basis throughout the season. As I mentioned before, we have so much to talk about and not everything can make it onto the podcast. So you have an individual question, this is where you can ask it, but the only way to do so is to sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.